Scaledfolks techs (general)

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Savra
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Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by Savra » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:33 pm

Techs:(22 in all)
Kobalds:( 1)
Kobold nimbleness:
Image
Grants: kobolds gain +10% to dodge counter.
Researched:
Cost:4

Kobold nimbleness 1:
Image
Grants: kobolds gain +10% to dodge counter.
Researched:
Cost:5

Kobold nimbleness 2:
Image
Grants: kobolds gain +10% to dodge counter.
Researched:
Cost:6

Lizardmen: (1)
Lizardman resilience:
Image
Cost:6
+5% hp to all Lizardman, and gatormen. +2% regen for Lizardman.

Lizardman resilience 2:
Image
Cost:7
+5% hp to all Lizardman, and gatormen. +2% regen for Lizardman.

Lizardman resilience 3:
Image
Cost:8
+5% hp to all Lizardman, and gatormen. +2% regen for Lizardman.


Snakemen:(2)
Snakemen reflexes 3 levels that just upgrade dodges.
Researched:
Image
Snakemen reflexes 1:
Cost:4
+5% to all dodges.

Image
Snakemen reflexes 2:
Cost:6
+5% to all dodges.

Image
Snakemen reflexes 3:
Cost:8
+5% to all dodges.

Swift Serpent's:
Cost:6
Grants Snakemen and nagas first strike.

Techs for all:(9)

Hardened scales:3 +1 levels. Works similar to even craftsmen upgrades.
Researched:
Hardened shells:
Image
Cost:4
+5% hp to all armoured non-beast units.

Hardened shells 2:
Image
Cost:5
+5% hp to all armoured non-beast units.

Hardened shells 3:
Image
Cost:6
+5% hp to all armoured non-beast units.


Hardened schutes: 3 +1 levels. Turtlemens armour.
Researched:
Image
Hardened schutes 1:
Cost:4
+1/+1 to armours.

Image
Hardened schutes 2:
Cost:5
+1/+1 to armours.

Image
Hardened schutes 3:
Cost:6
+1/+1 to armours.


Savage weaponry: 3 levels. Increases attack.
Researched:
Image
Savage weaponry 1:
Cost:4
+2 attack to units with weapons.

Image
Savage weaponry 2:
Cost:5
+2 attack to units with weapons.

Image
Savage weaponry 3:
Cost:6
+2 attack to units with weapons.


Fierce hunters: 3 levels. Effects ranged units.
Researched:
Image
Fierce hunters 1:
Cost:4
+1 range for ranged units.

Image
Fierce hunters 2:
Cost:5
+1 range for ranged units.

Image
Fierce hunters 3:
Cost:6
Gives ranged units +1 range.


Primal savagery: 3 +1 levels increase attack.
Researched:
Image
Primal savagery 1:
Grants +2 to attack.
Cost:4

Image
Primal savagery 2:
Grants +2 to attack.
Cost:5

Image
Primal savagerery 3:
Grants +2 to attack.
Cost:6

Reptilian resilience: 3 +1 levels. Increases health of units.
Researched:
Reptilian resilience:
Image
Cost:3
+5% hp to all non-beast units.

Reptilian resilience 2:
Image
Cost:4
+5% hp to all non-beast units.

Reptilian resilience 3:
Image
Cost:5
+5% hp to all non-beast units.


Warriors Spirit: 3 levels
Researched:
Warriors spirit 1:
Image
Grants +5% to resistance.
Cost:4

Warriors spirit 2:
Image
Grants +5% to resistance.
Cost:5

Warriors spirit 3:
Image
Grants +5% to resistance.
Cost:6

Poison darts:
Cost:5
Grants all darters the poison darts ability:
Requires: fierce hunters 1

Blinding darts:
Cost:6
Grants all darters blinding darts ability. Target unit gets -2 to sight, -6 hp.
Requires: fierce hunters 2

Tranquilizing darts:
Cost:7
Grants all darters the tranquilizing darts ability. Target unit gains sleep status (unit is disabled) for 2 turns.
Requires: fierce hunters 3

Draconian:
Draconian resilience:
Image
Cost:6
+5% hp,+1+1 armour to all draconians

Draconian resilience 2:
Image
Cost:7
+5% hp,+1+1 armour to all draconians

Draconian resilience 3:
Image
Cost:8
+5% hp,+1+1 armour to all draconians

Draconian Ferocity 1:
Cost:6
+2 to draconians attack

Draconian Ferocity 2:
Cost:7
+2 to draconians attack

Draconian Ferocity 2:
Cost:8
+2 to draconians attack

Casters:(2)
Seers stone: 3 levels
Seers stone 1:
Image
Grants:+1 ability range
Cost: 4

Seers stone 2:
Image
Grants: +1 ability range
Cost:5

Seers stone 3:
Image
Grants: +1 ability range
Cost:6

Draconic runes: 3 levels
Draconic runes 1:
Image
Grants:
Cost:4

Draconic runes 2:
Image
Grants:
Cost:5

Draconic runes 3:
Image
Grants:
Cost:6

Dragons rage: 3 levels
Dragons rage 1:
Image
Grants:
Cost:4

Dragons rage 2:
Image
Grants:
Cost:5

Dragons rage 3:
Image
Grants:
Cost:6

Dragons reach: 3 levels
Dragons reach 1:
Image
Grants: +1 ability range
Cost:4

Dragons reach 2:
Image
Grants: +1 ability range
Cost:5

Dragons reach 3:
Image
Grants: +1 ability range
Cost:6

Petrify: (for gorgon, unlocks basilisk)
Researched:
Cost:6

Poison mist: (for lizardmen Huitznahuatl)
Researched:
Cost:4

Sub races: (3)

Image
Dragons guard:
Researched:
Cost:6
Unlocks draconians

Image
Serpentine guard:
Researched:
Cost:6
Unlocks snakemen

Troglodyte warband:
Researched:
Cost:6
Unlocks troglodytes
Last edited by Savra on Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:02 am, edited 8 times in total.

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Savra
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Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by Savra » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:34 pm

More to come.

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Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by Savra » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:16 pm

Hmm, quick question @makazuwr32, what are your thoughts on some of these?

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makazuwr32
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Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by makazuwr32 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:48 pm

Reptilian sences is not possible - it will let for them to see invisible units in whole their sight range.
If unit somehow would get 50 sight range (via trigger for example) it will also be able to see invisible units in whole 50 sight range.
So no, try something else.

Do not like counterstrike for snakemen but will think more. Not sure here for now.

Hardened scales and hardened shutes: i would like to change this to +1/+1, +1/+1 and +2/+2 (also can you make such change for elven armor and shield techs?)

Not sure if hardened shutes is required unless this will work same way as shield techs of other races.

By the way, alex wanted to give for scalefolks not armor techs but bonus health techs. Try to think this way (we can give either bonus hp % based, numerical based or both via tech, i'd say best one is several techs with numerical health increase, 1 tree global for all race and such techs for advanced races like lizardmen, turtlemen and such who do not get any other defencive techs like dodges or armor).

Savage weaponry i think must be a bit less powerful, maybe +2 per level.

Primal savagery is for whom? Do not like it being global (elves do not get their fencing techs for all units, only for elven melee).

Do not like for now bonus resistance techs. Not until we will rework spells at least.

Natural swimmers: could be problem with coding — since i think you can't increase bonus (even negative) on unit via tech. Not sure though, need confirmation.

Throw spear do not like at all.

Do not like bonus regen given to lizardmen via techs becuase when maxed they gain higher regen than trolls (20% vs 15%). Either lower regen to 2% at base (and +2% per level) or do not give any per 3 techs. We can give separate single tier tech that will give just +5% for 8 tur s cost.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
When you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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Midonik
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Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by Midonik » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:55 pm

makazuwr32 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:48 pm
Natural swimmers: could be problem with coding — since i think you can't increase bonus (even negative) on unit via tech. Not sure though, need confirmation.
If they have some speed on water by default you can use terrain related effects to increase it.
However I believe if they have no speed on water by default, then this can't be done with JSONs, as they would actually need to get in water for the effect to trigger (I've been just trying to make that in AoG and failed, maybe I messed something up tho, if it can be modded please tell me.
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Savra
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Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by Savra » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:10 pm

Reptilian senses, ok.

Snake man counterstrike could be replaced with first strike instead.

Hardened scales we could lower the value their, I was also considering having scaledfolks rely on hp more then defence, however some form of armour upgrades I would like their base infantry to have so perhaps something along the lines of +1/+0, +0/+1, +2/+2, that way they have a max armour of 3/3 for unshielded units.

As for schutes, they are in place of the shields upgrades, so if we decide to just have scaledfolks focus on hp upgrades instead of armour upgrades, this will take place as their only armour upgrades, effecting only turtlemen, and armoured draconians, Lizardman, etc.

We might try it that way though with the hp upgrades and just make the Lizardman start with 1/1 or 2/2 armour as their only armour.

Regeneration, I was checking and we may start it at 4% and have it upgrade by 2% per level, leaving them at 10% regen at max. Also we might make them vulnerable to chilling, which I have plans for a new elf archer and possibly new human archer as well.

Trolls we will likely do something similar, 5% for base, elite 10%, 15% for master.

As for swimming, I could just adjust Lizardman to have 2 speed in water, armoured ones could have 1, cavalry could have 2-3.

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Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by Savra » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:07 pm

Btw, primal savagery is just for melee units, I was busy so I wasn't able to complete this thoroughly.

If we decide to go down with the hp thing, we might increase it a bit from 8.

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Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by makazuwr32 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:48 pm

I am fine with a bit higher health gain.

As for regen 10% maxed is fine.

Trolls by the way were planned to have 10% and additional tech to increase it by +5% (cost 8, this way all 3 base subraces of horde will have few racial non-leveling techs).

Can you suggest 3 variants in a different post:
1. With upgrades fully planned around hp gain
2. With combination of hp gain uogrades and armor upgrades
3. And current variant with mostly armor upgrades

So that it will be easier to compare them.
I need only values given to units and list of affected units per each upgrade.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
When you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by Savra » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:04 am

1: Hp based:

Reptilian resilience 1:
+20% hp to all, non-beast, units. +2% to Lizardman regen.

Reptilian resilience 2:
+20% hp to all, non-beast, units. +2% to Lizardman regen.

Reptilian resilience 3:
+20% hp to all, non-beast, units. +2% to Lizardman regen.

Draconian resilience:
+20% hp to all draconians.

Schutes upgrades:
Hardened schutes 1:
+10% hp for armoured, non-beast, units.

Hardened schutes 2:
+10% hp for armoured, non-beast, units.

Hardened schutes 3:
+10% hp for armoured, non-beast, units.

Draconian schutes:
+20% hp for armoured draconians.


2: armour and hp combo:

Reptilian resilience 1:
+20% hp to all, non-beast, units. +2% to Lizardman regen.

Reptilian resilience 2:
+20% hp to all, non-beast, units. +2% to Lizardman regen.

Reptilian resilience 3:
+20% hp to all, non-beast, units. +2% to Lizardman regen.

Draconian resilience:
+20% hp to all draconians.

Schutes upgrades:
Hardened schutes 1:
+1/+1 armour for armoured, non-beast, units.

Hardened schutes 2:
+1/+1 armour for armoured, non-beast, units.

Hardened schutes 3:
+1/+1 armour for armoured, non-beast, units.

Draconian schutes:
+2/+2 armour for armoured draconians.


3: original:

Hardened scales:
Researched:
Image
Hardened Scales 1:
Cost:4
+1/+1 to armour.

Image
Hardened Scales 2:
Cost:5
+1/+1 to armour.

Image
Hardened Scales 3:
Cost:6
+2/+2 to both armours.

Image
Draconian scales:
Cost:7
+2/+2 to draconian armours.


Hardened schutes:
Researched:
Hardened schutes 1:
Cost:4
+1/+1 to armour.

Hardened schutes 2:
Cost:5
+1/+1 to armour.

Hardened schutes 3:
Cost:6
+2/+2 to armour.

Draconian schutes:
Cost:7
+2/+2 to both armours for Draconian Dragon warrior.

Reptilian resilience: 3 +1 levels. Increases health of units.
Researched:
Image
Reptilian resilience 1:
Grants +10% hp, +5% regeneration for Lizardman.
Cost:5

Reptilian resilience 2:
Grants +10% to hp, +5% regeneration for Lizardman.
Cost:6

Reptilian resilience 3:
Grants +20% to hp, +5% regeneration for Lizardman.
Cost:7

Draconian resilience:
Grants +20% hp to draconians.
Cost:8

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Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by Savra » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:26 am

This would be a better way of looking at it:

rule: WU: weapon upgrade, PS: primal savagery, TS: tougher scales, HS: Hardened schutes, RR: reptilian resilience.

1: hp based:
Kobold Tlamanih:
Desc: Fierce warriors who wish to prove themselves to their dragon gods.
Trains: Kobold hut, tc
Cost:2
Hp:68/81/97/116
Atk:21 WU:23/25/27 PS:29/31/33
Rng:1
Sight:4
Spd:3
Arm:0
P.arm:2
Res:10%/15%/20%/25%
100% buildings, throwers

Lizardmen Cuextecatl: (Shielder)
Desc: Specialy breed lizardmen with tough schutes, that aid in deflecting incoming projectiles with ease.
Trains: Lizardman conclave, tc
Cost:3
Hp:116 RR:139/166/199 HS:218/239/262 Lizardman regeneration: +4%/+6%/+8%/+10% hp/turn
Atk:18 WU:20/22/24 PS:26/28/30
Rng:1
Sight:4
Spd:3 water:2
Arm:4
P.arm:4
Res:30%/35%/40%/45%
Bonuses:
200% cavalry

2: hp, armour combo:

Kobold Tlamanih:
Desc: Fierce warriors who wish to prove themselves to their dragon gods.
Trains: Kobold hut, tc
Cost:2
Hp:68/81/97/116
Atk:21 WU:23/25/27 PS:29/31/33
Rng:1
Sight:4
Spd:3
Arm:0
P.arm:2
Res:10%/15%/20%/25%
100% buildings, throwers

Lizardmen Cuextecatl: (Shielder)
Desc: Specialy breed lizardmen with tough schutes, that aid in deflecting incoming projectiles with ease.
Trains: Lizardman conclave, tc
Cost:3
Hp:116/139/166/199 Lizardman regeneration: +4%/+6%/+8%/+10% hp/turn
Atk:18 WU:20/22/24 PS:26/28/30
Rng:1
Sight:4
Spd:3 water:2
Arm:4/5/6/7
P.arm:4/5/6/7
Res:30%/35%/40%/45%
Bonuses:
200% cavalry

Original:

Kobold Tlamanih:
Desc: Fierce warriors who wish to prove themselves to their dragon gods.
Trains: Kobold hut, tc
Cost:2
Hp:68/81/97/116
Atk:21 WU:23/25/27 PS:29/31/33
Rng:1
Sight:4
Spd:3
Arm:0/1/2/3
P.arm:2/3/4/5
Res:10%/15%/20%/25%
100% buildings, throwers

Lizardmen Cuextecatl: (Shielder)
Desc: Specialy breed lizardmen with tough schutes, that aid in deflecting incoming projectiles with ease.
Trains: Lizardman conclave, tc
Cost:3
Hp:116/139/166/199 Lizardman regeneration: +4%/+6%/+8%/+10% hp/turn
Atk:18 WU:20/22/24 PS:26/28/30
Rng:1
Sight:4
Spd:3 water:2
Arm:4 TS:5/6/8 HS:9/10/12
P.arm:4 TS:5/6/8 HS:9/10/12
Res:30%/35%/40%/45%
Bonuses:
200% cavalry

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Savra
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Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by Savra » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:27 am

I'll be working on draconians next so we will have a visual of what they would look like.

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Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:20 am

% based techs is too dangerous to use i'd say in such amounts because they are multiplicative.
In case of armored draconian it will get in total +231% hp as opposed to +130%.
I mean that +20% and +20% do not give as result +40% but give +44% and if you will add another +20% it will become +72,8%.
Better to work with even lower % based values and add some amount of fixed values (at most +5%, not higher, because this way the mulpliticative effect won't affect way too much). Also maybe add cheap (2/3/4 for basic subs, 4/5/6 for locked subs) techs which depent on base tech and increase health of each sub separately.

Maybe better to make hp based techs next way:
Cheap (2/3/4 turns) basic tech, that will affect all units and more costly (3/4/5, 4/5/6 and for locked subs 5/6/7) techs for non-kobold subs.

I really do not like hp increase for that shielder-like unit being that high. In general try to avoid at all costs any % based hp increases with values higher than 5% which could stack.
That amount of hp increase in general is way too high for sure. They would become even more tanky and unkillable than orcs despite the fact that they have no armor.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
When you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by Savra » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:37 pm

Then perhaps something like this:

General:
3 levels:
Reptilian resilience:
Cost:3
+5% hp to all non-beast units.

Reptilian resilience 2:
Cost:4
+5% hp to all non-beast units.

Reptilian resilience 3:
Cost:5
+5% hp to all non-beast units.

Lizardman resilience:
Cost:6
+5% hp to all Lizardman, and gatormen. +2% regen for Lizardman.

Lizardman resilience 2:
Cost:7
+5% hp to all Lizardman, and gatormen. +2% regen for Lizardman.

Lizardman resilience 3:
Cost:8
+5% hp to all Lizardman, and gatormen. +2% regen for Lizardman.

Hardened shells:
Cost:4
+5% hp to all armoured non-beast units.

Hardened shells 2:
Cost:5
+5% hp to all armoured non-beast units.

Hardened shells 3:
Cost:6
+5% hp to all armoured non-beast units.

Draconian resilience:
Cost:6
+5% hp,+1+1 armour to all draconians

Draconian resilience 2:
Cost:7
+5% hp,+1+1 armour to all draconians

Draconian resilience 3:
Cost:8
+5% hp,+1+1 armour to all draconians

Kobold Tlamanih:
Desc: Fierce warriors who wish to prove themselves to their dragon gods.
Trains: Kobold hut, tc
Cost:2
Hp:68/71/74/77
Atk:21 WU:23/25/27 PS:29/31/33
Rng:1
Sight:4
Spd:3
Arm:0
P.arm:2
Res:10%/15%/20%/25%
100% buildings, throwers

Lizardmen Cuextecatl: (Shielder)
Desc: Specialy breed lizardmen with tough schutes, that aid in deflecting incoming projectiles with ease.
Trains: Lizardman conclave, tc
Cost:3
Hp:116 RR:121/127/133 LR:139/145/152 HS:159/166/174 Lizardman regeneration: +4%/+6%/+8%/+10% hp/turn
Atk:18 WU:20/22/24 PS:26/28/30
Rng:1
Sight:4
Spd:3 water:2
Arm:4
P.arm:4
Res:30%/35%/40%/45%
Bonuses:
200% cavalry

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Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by Savra » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:39 pm

Being that draconians can't regen, they will get bonus armour (tougher scales) through upgrades. However they won't get the shell upgrades (Maybe, depends on how the shielder looks first).

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Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:51 pm

I agree with this.
This sounds more reasonable.
Alas i think lizardmen techs should give numerical bonus hp (maybe +10 hp per level). But even this way is fine.
And again i remind that i do not agree with spell resist increasing techs for now.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
When you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
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Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by Savra » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:24 pm

For the kobalds I was thinking of giving them 3 dodge counter techs (they won't start with any dodge though), in place of the upgrade to all dodges.

That way at max they have 30% dodge counter.

We might increase the base Lizardman armour to 1/1 while the armoured one could have 4/6 armour.

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Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:09 pm

Both are fine. We'll say that this is their reflexes and skin.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
When you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader
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Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by Savra » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:55 pm

Or nimble feet and skin.

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Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by Savra » Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:37 pm

.
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Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by Savra » Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:54 am

.
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draconian resilience 1.png
draconian resilience 1.png (2.86 KiB) Viewed 1630 times
Draconian resilience 2.png
Draconian resilience 2.png (2.67 KiB) Viewed 1630 times
Reptilian resilience.png
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reptilian resilience 1.png
reptilian resilience 1.png (2.69 KiB) Viewed 1630 times
reptilian resilience 2.png
reptilian resilience 2.png (2.87 KiB) Viewed 1630 times
kobold resilience.png
kobold resilience.png (2.64 KiB) Viewed 1630 times
Kobold resilience 1.png
Kobold resilience 1.png (2.61 KiB) Viewed 1630 times
Kobold resilience 2.png
Kobold resilience 2.png (2.72 KiB) Viewed 1630 times

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Savra
Posts: 5629
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by Savra » Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:56 am

.
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Anders
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:41 pm

Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by Anders » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:25 pm

Great

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Savra
Posts: 5629
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Scaledfolks techs (general)

Post by Savra » Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:17 pm

Updated.

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