Orcs Tech - War Paint - FINALIZED

[Savra]

It just didn't seem like orcs and humans were getting much to me because of how many units they already have in game compared to the other races. I just thought you were trying to catch elves and undead up to these 2.

Techs are another story, as every race has somewhat of a similar amount.

[Alexander82]

Yes, in terms of units elves will probably end up having a lot more than other (thanks to all these mounting behaviours we are putting in).

Undeads are getting more variety as they mostly relied on basic skeletons.

[Alexander82]

Now I guess it is better to return OT or I will need to clean all the unrelated posts.

[Alexander82]

@makazuwr32 I was thinking, what about we make this effect a selfcast with cd with 0 action cost that last a few turns (even 1/2/3 for base/elite/master)? I think it might actually give 100% dodge counter for its duration but then you need to wait like 6/8 turns before you can use it again?

That would be more like the starting suggestion (that disable counters) but it wouldn't make it a permanent effect (so it must be used wisely to gain an actual benefit).

[makazuwr32]

@makazuwr32 I was thinking, what about we make this effect a selfcast with cd with 0 action cost that last a few turns (even 1/2/3 for base/elite/master)? I think it might actually give 100% dodge counter for its duration but then you need to wait like 6/8 turns before you can use it again?

That would be more like the starting suggestion (that disable counters) but it wouldn't make it a permanent effect (so it must be used wisely to gain an actual benefit).

Sounds better for me. Cd must be 8 i think.

[Alexander82]

Fine, it should be used tactically and I think it would be useful if used well (e.g. a swordsman that attack a knight or a troll that is fighting a enemy with fire weapon).

[makazuwr32]

Any on-hit effects do not apply on counter attacks. Just in case.

Also i was thinking that it is only for orcs specifically.
If it will be race-wide tech than either it must cost MUCH more (12-15 turns) or for each race there should be separate tech.

[Alexander82]

No that was meant to affect all the army. Maybe I will just make it as a general effect with 50% dodge counter for a high cost then.

12 turns to get an activated ability that is just extremely situational would be totally useless.

[makazuwr32]

I would rather give multiple less costly techs for each type of race of horde.
For goblins 2 turns cost, for orcs 3 turns, for trolls 4 turns, for minotaurs 3 turns, for uruks 2 turns (they already are scary), for giants 4 turns.

Yes it will cost in total 18 turns but you can research ability for example only for orcs and goblins for 5 turns and forget about others. It will be more flexible.

[Alexander82]

Uruks are orcs so they would be affected by the same tech used for orcs (like for poison weapon and orc skin).

[Alexander82]

Yes it will cost in total 18 turns but you can research ability for example only for orcs and goblins for 5 turns and forget about others. It will be more flexible.

I think that this way it would actually be a lot more effective as using, for example, goblin spearmen against cavalry would becamo a lot more cost effective in the early game.

[Savra]

I'd prefer this to only effect orcs and uruks actually, goblins already have goblin grenades and looting corpses so I don't think they need a 3rd ability right now. Trolls also are quite effective without this anyway and they don't have to worry much about counters anyway, also a majority of the trolls that this would be most effective with are the melee trolls and if you haven't noticed they have high enough survivability from counters as it is. Just take the Olog hai for example.

Orcs however this would work well with, being that they have a lot of units that could use this.

Another reason for this is that goblins are majority range fighters, including their supermen who can sit back a space and strike you from there. Orcs however mainly consist of up close fighters who have to deal with counterattacks alot.

[makazuwr32]

I also would prefer this ability to be purely for orcs only.

[Alexander82]

Orcs at the moment have 2 techs as well (trolls should get something sooner or later but it is not something that should be rushed). Maybe just a plain effect for melee units (so throwers are left out of it, even if they can attack in range 1).

[makazuwr32]

I'd say if it will become plain effect for melee than 2 things:
1. 30% dodge counter should be given.
2. Only for base part of race and uruks.

Cost can be in this case 7 turns.

[Alexander82]

Maybe the activated ability that gives 100% dodge counter and 30% dodge melee (with the old cooldowns). 30% dodge counter only for orcs would be useless. It would be already not much worth researching even if for all the army.

[makazuwr32]

100% counter as ability than. no melee dodge for sure. Leave melee dodge to elves.

[Alexander82]

I'll put in something different in the next update.

[Shark guy 35]

How about making it put fear affect on the victim of the attack?

[Alexander82]

How about making it put fear affect on the victim of the attack?

Maybe more a fear aura. Multiple on hit effects don't work together, and orcish units already have weapon poisoning.

[Alexander82]

How about making it put fear affect on the victim of the attack?

Maybe more a fear aura in range 1. Multiple on hit effects don't work together, and orcish units already have weapon poisoning.