Race traits — ARCHIVED

[Alexander82]

We should define the race traits:

Ranged units: does the race has ranged units? are ranged units on par with human, better or weaker compared to other races?
Melee units: Are melee unit stronger or weaker compared to humans? Does they cost more or less?
Magic: Is their magic strong or not? Do they have many magic users?
Speed: Are them fast more or less compared to humans? Doest their fast units cost more?
Specials: Do they have many special effect (poison, invisibility, and so on)?

I think we should focus on what are their strong point cause a race can't be optimal in every field.

I assume that poison is a must have and it is ok to have most of their units have poison, but then their units should cost more compared to a unit with the same stats without poison. Also, if we want it to focus on stealth (many invisible units) they shouldn't be stronger than humans in melee (since humans can't rely on the same amount of stealth and poison).
Let's try to balance them.

No need to say that elite units aren't strictly tied to those limits, but we should have a point to start.

[Alpha]

The Melee should be mediocre while the Ranged is behind Elfs.

There Mounted should be Mediocre

There Magic should be really good!

[Midonik]

I think they fighter must be strong,no soo much like orcks and drafnes. Think they must be only little stronger than human. I think they should got same speed as humans,some of them faster in water,almost all avablie to move at it. Their archer can be weaker than humans,but no soo much like orcks and undeads ranged. I dont know what witch magic,but it cant be too strong. Remember they got weak structures. Snakemens are expert in posion invisible etc.,but most of this unit should be for gems.

[Alexander82]

About lizards and water i'm not too fond on that. I think we may have specific units but every unit going to water would not just be a great advantage, but also wouldn't be too sensed for me. If they were amphibious like salamanders or frogs it would have been different.

[Midonik]

You got some right.

[DoomCarrot]

Well I think most of their snake/frog units should be able to swim somehow. But yes, lizards in water is a little weird.

To be fair though, we don't have to call them "lizards." We could simply call lizardlike units "scaledfolk"

[Alexander82]

I also think that if all of their units should be able to sleem without penalty they should be definitely weaker than human (even more than undeads that walk at halved speed in water)

[Midonik]

This way,better dont do this. They cant be so weak,it would be stupid.

[Alexander82]

What you mean? Removing waterwalking from basic units? It is like the swamp orc. It isn't optimal for land attack and it is fast on water (so it is balanced). If you make strong units (more than human's) that are optimal for both water and land it wouldn't be balanced cause all races need to make specific units for one or the other. On the other hand if you make it slightly weaker than humans you trade power for versatility.

[Midonik]

Stupid would be if they will be weaker than human warriors. They are halflizards/snakes

[Alexander82]

that's what we are defining now. It's not something that works automatically. In our setting lizardmen might be physically weaker than a trained soldier. We are deciding everything and trying to balance things

[Midonik]

So... Good traing much better than phisic force? Orcs show somethink diffrent.

[Alexander82]

I'm saying that in our setting we might have decided that orcs are weaker than humans or that elves are slower, but it is OUR setting and we can choose how to set things

In our setting (that, of course, takes much from canonic fantasy) we decided that orcs are weaker in ranged attack and stronger in melee. I think that we might make a stronger lizardman that can freely swim into water, but we also should make it cost more than a 2 turns unit

Also we can always make basic 2 turns units cobolds (that are the reptile equivalent for goblins) that are just a land race. they might be weaker than lizards but faster.

If you make every 2 turns unit move 3 on both water and ground you are giving a HUGE advantage to this race in every water map and the player would just start resigning from online games when they see that you reached them before they can make their first ship and are ready to invade their land tcs cause your units are as fast as their and are also stronger in melee

So i really thing that they should move slowly in water (not faster than undead that are also slower than humans) or they shoul be slow on land.

I really think that a lizard move much faster on land that on water and they might be characterized by their speed and not by their strength (they aren't an emblem of strenght as much as orc are, and it isn't a canon that lizardman are physically stronger than humans).

For example i'd make them an effective race by giving them a lower attack and more actions and higher speed (more costly units might have 4 like elves, since lizards are indeed a fast animal).
Instead of having 12 attack they might have 5 attack and 2 actions (it might come in handy when you are near damaged enemies and upgrades count twice times for damage).

There are many ways to characterize a race. Being less common as a playable race we can do as we like (someone might complain if we make dwarves warriors lighter than elven one, but they would hardly complain if we make a lizard weaker but faster)

[MightyGuy]

nice! btw lizards,snakes,cobolds have higher hp than others because i think it is belongs to dragon family.Dragon Hav higher hp too and hard scaled.

[Alexander82]

Dragon have high hp cause they are dragons. Cobolds are the weakest members of the family and they have stats that can be considered similar to a goblin (more or less)

[Skelegonsans]

I think:
- their melee fighters should be SLIGHTLY better than humans;
- their ranged fighters should be SLIGHTLY worse than humans;
- the dragons should be really op but high costing units;
- they should be able to move in water, but with move cost of 2;
- the lizardmen should be the basic units (like spearmen, warrior, etc.)
- the snakemen have poison and have about the same stats as lizardmen, just focusing a bit more on speed and attack rather than armor and hp;
- nearly every scaledfolk unit must have at least 1/1 armor, due to very hard scales;
- the units should be a bit slow in general, but also have some fast units;
- their cavalry must be bad, but might have some special traits, like moutain walking and so on.
What do you think

[Alexander82]

I would make cobolds some basic2 turns units more or less like humans
i would make lizardmen stronger and waterwalking but with a cost of 3

[Skelegonsans]

Then we should raise the costs/stats of the lizardmen, cuz they are all cost 2 units.

[Alexander82]

Yes, and their stats a bit too

[Alexander82]

So, Midonik, Mightyguy, do you agree of using the little lizardman as cobolds and making bigger lizardmen, like the one i've made, to be stronger and waterwalking 3 turns units?

[Midonik]

Ok. But this bigger gone be basic or for gems?

[Alexander82]

We can decide from time to time. i'm also for balancing armies in default mode too.

[MightyGuy]

ok, its ok for me

[Skelegonsans]

Well, now that the traits are organized, it might be a bit easier to create a unit that everyone agrees with and that seems balanced. For everyone thinking about creating stats for units, try using their human equals for base (for ex. When i suggested the stats for maceman i used stats of warrior as base and then did the modifications i saw fit)

[MightyGuy]

good! :p

[General Brave]

So here it what I'm getting.

The snakes are quick and has poison.

The lizardmans are strong as human or some cases better, and could move in water.

The kobolds will have the number and extra action and stealth.

I might try to spearhead them, but I need someone that will help do art and help me make stat.

[Midonik]

Yeah,you get it.
Before this race,dwarfs have to get in,so no hurry. Didn't we have their basic units already?

[Skelegonsans]

It would do my heart good to see this race's topics & ideas revived, I love the concept of this race.
But unfortunately we won't get anywhere with it until dwarves are implemented first, so to save time and effort maybe focus on getting dwarves ready for implementation first and then coming back here.
But yes @general, that's basically it. Check the unit ideas in the scaledfolk race section for you to have a "general" idea of what it is like.
(sorry I just had to make that pun )

[General Brave]

We will finish the dwarves so the scaledfolk can be work on next.

[makazuwr32]

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