Dwarf boar musketeer — IMPLEMENTED

[King]

Dwarven boar Musketeer

Can occupy buildings, No counter attack, Hits Flying units

Categories
, Flesh and blood, Dwarves
Dwarven boar Musketeer


Cost 5
Hp 25/25
Attack power 7
Range 4
Minimum range 1
Miss (*speed) 0%
Armor 2
Pierce armor 2
Speed 5
Sight 8
Action /turn 1/1
Heal Bonus 1.0
Spell resistance 30%
Size 1x1
Upgrade to

[Anchar]

I am for the fact that such a fighter was in the game.

[Anchar]

But with a range like a normal musket

[Badnorth]

Dwarves are UC aswell as scaledfolk , they wont accept new units for a while for uc races I think.

[makazuwr32]

Dwarves are UC aswell as scaledfolk , they wont accept new units for a while for uc races I think.

Here you are right.
Especially with such haphazard stats.

[Midonik]

I mean while we're here, there was a similar suggestion in the past and I stand by my opinion.
Reloading a musket on a back of an animal is impossible so change it to a pistol.

[makazuwr32]

That is not impossible acrually. During napoleonic wars many sides had cavalry with muskets who used them.

But... To reload they required to stop and wait and also they had a melee weapon.
Same with pistols by the way.

So if we will follow that concept than this unit would be mounter, archer and melee categories with 1 range and melee attack at base and ability to shoot at some range from musket with cooldown (probably 4 turns).

Such formidable unit will require higher cost.

[Badnorth]

I mean while we're here, there was a similar suggestion in the past and I stand by my opinion.
Reloading a musket on a back of an animal is impossible so change it to a pistol.

Since its fantasy I think the dwarves modified the muskets to their own version .
Having new uses an original musket wouldn't have.

[Midonik]

Can we at least rename it? Rifleman or smt.

[makazuwr32]

I actually think that dwarves do not need gun-type mounted ranged unit.

Hand crossbow mounted would be better.

[Anchar]

Well, people, orcs, undead, and now the elves have such a fighter, why don't the gnomes make a long-range fighter on a horse, I would like that he could compete with his counterparts, for which he needs a musket that provides a maximum range of 9 cells

[Alexander82]

please do not mix dwarves and gnomes as later we will have gnomes as a dwarven sub faction

[Alexander82]

Anyway I'm not against a dwarven mounted ranged unit

[Anchar]

My translator translated your sentence as not to mix gnomes and gnomes

[makazuwr32]

i prefer hand crossbow more. it would fit better for unit and also will make unit cheaper.
basic hand crossbowman by the way has range 5-9.
With musket as for me cost should be at least 6 or even 7 turns (due to amount of upgrades which affect gun-type units).

[Midonik]

If it's hand crossbow, I think you can reload it on animal's back as well.

[Alexander82]

we can have both hand crossbow and pistol

I wouldn't be against a repeating crossbow version either (I remember we stated it uses smaller bolts and a specific mechanism so it could be used on the back of a mount).

about the musketeer...
I saw their weapons more like rifles so I wouldn't prevent them to be used on horseback but anyway I don't think we need that many mounted ranged units for dwarves.

[makazuwr32]

1 ranged mounted unit for dwarves is enough.
At least at base.

We can add more for subs anyway.

[Alexander82]

maybe one crossbow and one gun at least

[makazuwr32]

Than pistol is enough.

[Savra]

Why don't we just make it an axe and pistol?, I mean it doesn't have to be strictly like that of other mounted archers we could have some flexibility here.

We could just make it either transform stance of just have the pistol shot be a ability.

It would still drop a mounted archer corpse.

[makazuwr32]

Cost will be increased than in both cases.
Pistol only if he will have will cost 5.

With axe + pistol combo he will have cost 6 or even 7.
Who needs such unit with stats worse than dwarven knight in melee form and no bonuses in ranged form?
Look onto centaur - who needs them for 8 turns with such bad stats?

As for ability variant - here is another problem because we can't make ability affected by regular ranged and gunpowder techs and require to add specifically for this unit some other ways of range/attack increase of ability (we can't make him affected by spell power and spell range normal techs). And if we someday would require to add affinity from spell power and spell range for runes than this will also affect that ability.
Just no.

[Alexander82]

I would stick with pure ranged mounted units

[makazuwr32]

So do i unless we need another never-seen centaur-like unit.

[Anchar]

Well, gnomish units are already quite expensive and his production is smaller than a centaur. I think that with the proper buildup and subject to victory in the battle, it will be done for the early completion of the battle if his stats are normal and not truncated. Centaurs are still used in just such cases.

[makazuwr32]

Uhm... If you train centaurs with current their stats than it is just a waste of production as for me.

And that dual unit won't even be near centaurs in terms of hp/attack.
Max melee attack probably would be with all techs 14, max hp would be 30 and 4/4 max armor for 8 turns. Ofc he also will have second form with max 11 attack and max 9 range.

If you think that such unit would be trainable for experienced players than i recommend to play more. Dual units are not in favour and will always have worst cost/stats ratio.

[Anchar]

I mean such situations when your troops win in a battle, you are sure of your victory, you are too lazy to lead swordsmen, archers and even cavalry across the map, the centaur goes well in such situations. In simple combat, he is certainly mediocre. Moreover, I didn't seem to write anything about using it by experienced players, the translator is to blame.

[Savra]

Wait, 9 range? He's got a flint lock and dwarves only have 2 gun range upgrades so his max range would just be 6. Also the melee form would just be for when the enemy gets close, in the end its still a ranged unit primarily and can keep the same cost as the other boar riders to boot. It wouldn't be useless either considering you can upgrade it like the other units.

But speaking of upgrades, I assume you were referring to the problem with it having 2 forms and only being able to upgrade 1 and not both?

As for the centaur, if you really think it's useless then why don't you have it benefit from elves ranged and melee techs, or give it it's own. Also being that it has a two handed sword why don't we make it have an aoe attack in melee? It's a simple fix.

[Alexander82]

we are redoing centaurs to have more variety and being normal units (not dual)

[makazuwr32]

Wait, 9 range? He's got a flint lock and dwarves only have 2 gun range upgrades so his max range would just be 6. Also the melee form would just be for when the enemy gets close, in the end its still a ranged unit primarily and can keep the same cost as the other boar riders to boot. It wouldn't be useless either considering you can upgrade it like the other units.

But speaking of upgrades, I assume you were referring to the problem with it having 2 forms and only being able to upgrade 1 and not both?

As for the centaur, if you really think it's useless then why don't you have it benefit from elves ranged and melee techs, or give it it's own. Also being that it has a two handed sword why don't we make it have an aoe attack in melee? It's a simple fix.

1. Basic range of normal pistol dwarf is 4, is affected by both ranged techs (+2 total to both attack and range) and by gunpowder techs (+2 total to attack). Also via tiers gains +2 to attack and range as well. As result 10 attack and 8 range (alas i was wrong, i admit that — not 9 range and 11 attack).

2. About upgrades i am saying that if we will make pistol as ability we won't be able to upgrade it normally. Especially in case if we would need to upgrade runes.

3. About centaurs - they will be redone later into separate normal units (no dual wielders, lower cost, adequate stats and costs, several upgrades unique to centaurs, several upgrades for beastmen of elves (satyrs, centaurs and so on), approximately 4 or 5 units for now - archer, skirmisher, melee (aka knight-like), lancer, maybe shaman).