Dwarf Sharpshooter — ARCHIVED

[Alpha]

A Dwarf Sniper

Cost:5
Hp:15
Attack Power:8(when already moving) 16(When he did not moved, but this stops him from moving)
Range:6 (It can not fire over walls and obstacles, but it can shoot from towers.)
Armor:0
Pierce Armor:0
Speed:3
Sight:5

Sniper Volley (Fire 3 shots that deal each 10 damage, this can be used as a choice where you want to fire, also allows you to fire at 3 enemy's near each other or at a single enemy)
Headshot (deals 30 damage with 3 pierce armor but has a high cooldown)

[DoomCarrot]

Well, both of those specials are super powerful. I think they would both need at least 5+ turn cooldowns.

Interesting idea though.

[Alpha]

That is fine!

[Alexander82]

I like the idea

Skills need coodown (obviously)

I didn't understand the thing of 30 damage with 3 piearce armor. Do you think it bypass 3 armor?

Another thing we need to define are dwarven downsides

We all agreed that a race with most of the units that move whitin a 2 range would be unacceptable

Dwarves shall be strong in melee more or less like orcs (less attack, more armor or hp)

Dwarves will have specific buildings for ranged units and strong ranged units (and i like it)

Dwarves will have rune magic (and i'm the one who invented it, so i like it)

what might decide as possible downsides:

- no fast units (max cavalry speed 4) or if we want something faster we should make units cost more based of how fast they are (example, basic 2 turns warrior will have speed 2. A 3 turn warrior will have speed 3)
- units start slow and they need techs to improve speed
- you can unlock unit upgrades only if you research an armor or weapon upgrade first (like an extra requirement)
- no spell resistance (less than orcs)
- no flying units (since they are mostly underground dwellers)
- units costs more (that might seriously uderrate the race though)

let me know what you think

[Alpha]

I don't understand the point of no spell resistance, they do have runes, everything is fine.

[DoomCarrot]

I think he means it does 30 damage to a 3 pierce armor unit. So 33 damage.

Also, the unlocking weapon thing before tech makes no sense to me, what do you mean by that?
The no flying thing is understandable.
Lastly, expensive units will not make them weak I don't think. They will be very hard to kill if played right (hiding behind/in strong defenses, being strong, etc)

[Alexander82]

I mean that if you make units with the same stats more expensive you will be left behind by other races. Unless it is like a powered human race witj higher costs.

[MightyGuy]

cool idea!

[Midonik]

Its good idea,should be in game.

[MightyGuy]

i think yes

[Skelegonsans]

I think head shot is way too op. Its a sure-kill for all cost 3- units. A swarm of these guys will obliterate nearly any army. Id definitely leave headshot out.

Other ideas look cool, though.

[Alpha]

But it has a high cool down with low HP. It also expensive so I believe it is fine.

[Skelegonsans]

The cooldown time wouldnt do much difference if u have, like, 5-7 of these guys. Any unit that comes close is DEAD. That seems too op. Not to mention that if, for exemple, the player is producing 2 of them all the time in 2 TCs, he/she will get 2 more every 5 turns, and that will practically assure victory, or at leas grant a HUGE advantage; all that with a single unit type. Even if the cooldown were 10, that would be true, because all they need to do while waiting to recharge is to wait for the other 2 sharpshooters that are coming and stay put dealing 16 damage every turn. Get off the headshot.

[Alpha]

A dwarf does not have that much speed. A simple group of ORc Raptor Riders will obliterate them. Also if they try to escape they will deal less damage and can miss.

[Skelegonsans]

Even if the raptors do reach them, they will probably have some headshots left, and against 1 raptor, 1 headshot = death. So if tgere are, say, 5 sharpshooters that havent used headshot, and 3 raptors attack, kill 1 of tgem and damage another. 3 headshots= raptors dead. A group of raptors is no match against a group of sharpshooters.

Also not every unit has 6 speed yknow. Any unit with 4- speed (most units) that approach these guys is as good as dead unless it has at least 100 hp or a VERY HIGH p armor (like 10).

EDIT: wait a second. Now that i lookes at its stats... ITS RANGE IS 1??

[Alpha]

Lol I forgot to change the range XD

[Menselot]

This unit is still a good idea i hope it is not dead !!!!

[General Brave]

Need an image.

[Menselot]

Ok i will make one. I love making images

[Skelegonsans]

still think the headshot is op.

[makazuwr32]

Headshot is fine but i don't like sniper volley ability.
It must have only one of abilities or share cooldown for them.

[Skelegonsans]

Headshot: deals 30 DAMAGE and ignores 3 PIERCE ARMOR.
"headshot is ok"

[makazuwr32]

Yes. It is fine if it will have 2-3 turns cooldown.
But sniper volley has some problems:
1. It will be pretty hard to code this ability if without giving additional turns.
2. 3 shots for 10 damage is ofc better than 1 for 30 damage against many races: elves, humans, scaledfolks, other dwarves. (Elves have 11 hp archers! Humans have 11 or 15 after upgrades. And because of that it is op ability to fight agaist them. And remember that dwarves already have great armor on their crossbowmen)

As for headshot it can't be coded for now as i see effects to ignore exactly 3 p.armor - either no ignore or full ignore.

[Skelegonsans]

I still am completely against the headshot. I don't see how an ability that has a 3 turn cooldown and deals 30 damage while ignoring p. armor can be balanced, at least not with this unit cost. If you really must have him make that skill, then increase its cooldown to maybe 4 and make it a much higher unit cost, maybe 6 or 7 (and slightly increase stats to compensate too ofc). Otherwise a player can easily just spam the crap out of this guy in buildings for free dmg on key units that were supposed to endure ranged damage. It's a game-breaking mechanic if allowed to be used so often.

[makazuwr32]

Uhm.
The thing is that for example right now dwarven riflemen are far better units to fight against many giants of orcs due to their bonuses to giants.
Another thing is that this one has no armor and low hp while being more costly than rifleman. Remember that rifleman right now has also higher range, hp, armor and stationary mode where he has even better hp and armor and cost 3 turns.
These ones (ESPECIALLY if they will be shooting stand ONLY units) can't be spammed so easily especially when there are 2 much better units: dwarven rifleman and dwarven crossbowman. And you can get each of them for 5 turns instead of this one.

Also about headshot i think that this ability must have 3 turns cooldown and take into account p.armor so no armor penetrating.

[Skelegonsans]

Headshot (deals 30 damage with 3 pierce armor but has a high cooldown)

3 is not a high cooldown especially for an ability that deals 30 damage.

[makazuwr32]

Also we did not discuss its range - what will range of that ability be?

[Skelegonsans]

Probably the same of the normal attack range. But honestly, if this ability gets implemented as-is I'll just be so disappointed. It's not balanced at all... If it was like 20 or 25 damage with a cooldown of 4 or 5, it would be strong, but not op, 30 is too much tho, it can one-shot low cost units and somewhat damage high cost units with only 3 cooldown, not to mention it would easily demolish buildings that don't have 9999 p.armor...

[General Brave]

I do like the volley shot, but perhaps it should have more Miss chance.

[makazuwr32]

1. We can always restrict targets for ability. For example remove buildings and mechanical units from this so sniper can't just target with it any wagons/ships/factories...
2. I don't think that it is easy to target fast units as well so cavalry and flying targets must be removed from availible target list.
3. Killing lower-than-this-unit's-cost units with this ability is fine. And even more master orc warriors can survive it with 2 hp if this ability will take p.armor into account.
4. Attack range of this unit is 6, he has no armor, 3 speed and 15 hp only so it really easy to kill it before it can shoot someone with this ability with either archers (elves, humans, dwarves, orcs have ones which have superior range) or cavalry if this ability will not be able to target them. (Uruk archer with support from orc shaman's strenghten and orc leader can one shot him)
5. No bonus damage to any units from ability. Just flat 30 damage that can be reduced by p.armor.
6. Dwarven rifleman deals in movement form 16 damage for example to giants, 18 in stationary form and 24 if under strenghten effect while having superior range. Each turn. And costs 3 turns if compare with this one's 5.
7. Remember that cooldown 3 means that he shoots this only one per 4 turns.
8. Again. It is far worse to "spam" these units than dwarven riflemen and dwarven crossbowmen due to their cheaper cost, better stats and better variety of usage. This unit right now has NO suggested bonuses to any other units. Like uruk archers but with higher cost, lower damage, health, armor (this one has no), no range increase (and remember that it is nearly impossible to increase ingame ability's range just by upgrade) and yes powerful ability that can be used ones per 4 turns. The ONLY useful thing from this "sharpshooter" is this ability right now. With higher cooldown it will be COMPLETETY waste of production for 5 turns.
9. I'm also against sniper volley ability so it will have only headshot. –Usefullness of this unit.
10. Remember that we always can just Reduce damage from ability after testing is it op or not.
11. IF this unit will gain some bonuses to any units than ofc this ability MUST be nerfed. Mainly in damage, not in cooldown increase.


Also if i designed sniper unit for dwarves than it would have completely different.
Even higher base cost (8/9/10), headshot instakills living unit (can't be used on buildings, mechanical units, cavalry, flying units and undeads 'cause they are already dead) with high cooldown (5 turns) and ignorance of spell resist, higher range, lower hp (10 or 11), higher damage, invilibility as ability for few turns that instabreaks after either using ability or just regular attack and bonuses to infantries (not undead ones!), archers (also foot only), giants of orcs or other races (again, not undead ones!).