Orcs imba - ANSWERED

[desatixix]

It seems to me that the orcs are still the strongest race, both on small maps, because at the same cost they have more health and strength, and on large maps, as upgrades make themselves felt. It seems to me that the orcs of the master can only fight, so we need to increase the time for building buildings, weaken the damage of protective structures and increase the cost of technology

[makazuwr32]

They will have some nerfs later (after dwarves will be ready) but mostly they will stay as they are right now.

As for buildings - you should wait for global buildings revamp: all buildings will have changed their hps, armors, construction rates and such. Also some changes will be made to workers and siege in this update.

[desatixix]

Okay
and the @Stratego (dev) o will congratulate us with a new update happy new year?)

[Stratego (dev)]

i would love to! and will as soon asi get a pack from alex - he is wokring on some fixes

[Alexander82]

I'm almost done (still some fixes are something I can't really do by myself)

[sambojin69]

Looking forward to the orcs rework. As the only race I tend to play, they do make you feel a little cheesy when winning with them.

By far their biggest problem is Minotaurs. Huge attack, good movement, decent HP and armour, a built-in ability for even more movement and attack, and very cheap upgrades turn-wise.

Other than the odd goblin slave/ archer/ spiker or un/armoured orcs for defense (or fast cav for scouting), there's nearly no reason to build anything else. They fulfil the cav role (good attack, 4 movement, 2/2 armour), the building destroyer role (infantry attack bonuses vs buildings), and even the anti-archer role (charge gives them pretty amazing movement range, even at the loss of armour). Being able to be built at TCs and Dens makes for very large forces of them too. The only thing they can't do is water maps, but we've got merlocks and cheap transports for that anyway.

It sounds pretty specific, but even with wide ranging changes to the rest of the orcs list (including buildings), if Minotaurs remain the same, they're still the "I win!" button of choice for orcs. I'd recommend dropping their armour by 1/1 (so they don't compete with wolfriders as heavily) and increasing the Elite/Master Minotaurs tech up to either 5/7 or 6/8 turns respectively. Also, make them only be able to be built at Dens (not TCs), so you can't spam them out in large numbers as easily. This will give them a bit more of a niche, and make it far harder to power them up to unkillable levels of numbers and attack/ armour/ movement. It might not even be enough of a nerf for them, but it's in the right direction.

Right now it is so easy to get a mob of 3/3 armoured, high attack, high HP, fast infantry going as orcs, that no-one else stands a chance. Then, six turns later, a backfield TC turns them all into one-shot-killers against almost anything. Sure, they can't upgrade further like wolfriders can, but they don't really need to. They're already there, enmasse, upgraded, and rampaging through the enemy on all but the biggest of maps.

[makazuwr32]

They still are counterable if used against skillful player.

Alas i agree that they are one of most op orcish units and that should be fixed.

[sambojin69]

Yeah, I'd rather give fairly simple-to-implement fixes for stuff, rather than "you should do this, and this, AND this". Simple stat line or where it can be built stuff.

Even only being built at Dens is fine. They're an elite'ish unit, that can really pay dividends on use, even with less of them. But they shouldn't be a gimme unit, where few other things compare to them in the 3 turn creation bracket, with such cheap upgrades.

Minotaurs do have their place in the orc's lineup, they're an awesome unit, and I'd hate to lose them entirely. They do a thing, and are actually quite fun to use, with decision making processes involved (do you charge them to the front line, or wait for the smackdown to come? Or somewhere in between, depending on how the game evolves?). They're just a bit too good right now. They can be countered, by by god is it hard to counter a mino-rush in 1v1 games with humans or orcs (currently the two most "averagely good" factions), unless you specifically go for it. And it's not like you can't just change focus pretty quickly with orcs anyway, if the mino-rush fails.

[makazuwr32]

Minotaurs later (when we will finish with dwarves and undeads) will be changed into full sub and locked behind embassy with ofc being trainable only in volcanoes and specific to that sub buildings.

That is decided already.

But for now stop arguing because we are co centrated on making dwarves into full-sized faction and changing what left for them from previous not so good implementation.

[Alexander82]

Maybe we should implement already a few minotaur units and make them as a sub as soon as possible then. I'll see what I can do.

[General Brave]

Guess you already have a few.

[Alexander82]

wip

they will be probably the most civilized sub of the orcish race. Unlocking them won't be the cheapest sub so that will avoid any balance issue.