Strategy in 3 Player game

[DreJaDe]

That's, nice. (The deer knight)

Who did you fight against though? Thats what really matters, is it the newbies or the best orc players etc.

Elf strat is straightforward, yes (not so much). You basically have three choice in them, the pure strat, the mix strat and adapt as the game go on. You can't really go pure if the game is long since this elves is like AOW in being countered. (Being one shotted by almost everyone)

[makazuwr32]

That's, nice. (The deer knight)

Who did you fight against though? Thats what really matters, is it the newbies or the best orc players etc.

Elf strat is straightforward, yes (not so much). You basically have three choice in them, the pure strat, the mix strat and adapt as the game go on. You can't really go pure if the game is long since this elves is like AOW in being countered. (Being one shotted by almost everyone)

Against lynx, sunrise samurai (i see him as second best orc player, that time they were by the way stronger because giants were able to enter wagons and elves have no wagon) as elf, against some random guy as undead (that game was this spring, it took me like 120+ turns but eventually i managed to kill him, he was pro but without uruks and giants, from subs used only minotaurs) , against another random guys multiple times for humans (yes there were newbies but also 3 times i had a play against really good orc players and still i was able to beat them).

Only player whom i couldn't beat for humans by the way is sunrise samurai. I played against him at least 7 times (human vs orc) and yet 0 wins. He on the other hand was able to beat me as orc for both humans and elves.

About elven strategies:
I know at least 5 strategies for them:
Rushing strategy, works against humans, elves and sometimes undeads
Defencive strategy (requires lots of wolf dens, parapets, maxed treetop archery, maxed druids, maxed ents)
Rushing for researches strategy (only possible when enemy is really far away), especially good on big maps, after becomes defencive or balanced strategy
Balanced strategy — combines things from all other strategies
Offencive strategy — only good against weak players or against weak spots (for example spot far away from main forces)

[DreJaDe]

Uhhhm.. based on your statements. When did you play against them?

I remember humans, UD and elves being OP enough to beat orcs at some updates. I mean, even dwarves could beat orc at some point.

But if old accounts count, i played so many games with humans against elves in different updates also. And never lost one. I never lost against elves as human (30x30 maps). Why humans? We already gathered enough data to state that humans can't beat orcs if the players are equal as player (this has so many content to call them equals).

The elvens strategy
Yeah, that's mostly it, with some differences to others like that defensive strat. I call it the stalling strat if I don't know how other player will move which in turn would give me more time to research things.

[makazuwr32]

Against lynx it was i think around year ago.
Against sunrise it was long-long ago, orcs definately were more op than elves (just to mention - there were no bonus for melee units against throwers).

Against others it was actually this year mostly. January-august.

[Huttensohn]

Could you please change the description of Ent warrior and treetop archery so that this feature is transparent? it's a very important elf skill and I think also new people should know it..

[makazuwr32]

You can suggest your own variant of description that will mention this. If is fine than we will change.

We do not have time right now to work on such small things because we are working on more global changes.

[Huttensohn]

I have to rant again. The orc towers are just so op. I now researched 4 turns, build an ent trainer, build a demolisher, and then it gets killed by one hit of the enemy tower that happened to get his range upgrade just in this turn. the aoe often even makes the range one higher. The tower only takes 2 turns to construct, with peons..

[Huttensohn]

Update on my game. The player itself is just a normal orc player but as all orc are powerful, I called him powerful orc player. The other player was actually an undead. I kicked him out but struggled to conquer his two TCS. I shortly conquered one, which gives me one factory more, which is nice. I plan on finally conquering him by a the use of a cargo ship while his troops are not in the Tc.

The orc is how building loads of towers with seven range and has a volcano, too. It is very difficult to destroy his towers without losing a lot of units. He basically one hit kills everything that gets in range. One of my tcs is in his tower range and is constantly bombarded. The only strategy I can think of is burning his towers, then killing his workers with superior range archers. Summon ent is somewhat effective, too.

I use a lot of wolf dens to stall the enemy until I get all my range upgrades.

Have you tried using wagons in combination with meele infantry units for a quick assault to conquer positions?

[Anchar]

Yes, you can send swordsmen in wagons, but what's the point if an orc builds his towers in 2 turns? Soon its range will grow to 9, your army will decrease and your orc army will increase. You will see many more surprises. Unless of course you are playing against a player, and not against an AI

[makazuwr32]

It is better to use blade singer + wagons for that i'd say.

[Anchar]

As a result, it will come out so that you will spend 4+ turns on the swordsmen who will demolish the tower and > 3 turns on the cart, after which these fighters will be destroyed by the orcs and other towers defending them, and the orc will build a new one in > 2 turns.

[makazuwr32]

Kill orc peons and goblin slaves with archers to reduce construction speed of towers for now.

[DreJaDe]

Kill orc peons and goblin slaves with archers to reduce construction speed of towers for now.

I couldn't see this working at all.

[makazuwr32]

Well i did this and it worked well. Alas i used them hidden inside ent warriors.

[Huttensohn]

it's a real player. Yeah, you're right, everything I'm doing costs me much more Ressources than him. That said, I also have a bit more ressources. for me, killing his workers worked well. what works best anyway is having long range archers destroying his towers when they have one health.

[Huttensohn]

it's quite hard to time the blade singers, the perfect thing would be :
turn one - double strike on self, strengthen, enter wagon
turn two, move wagon in danger zone, exit wagons with blade singers, double magic missile. Then everyone gets killed. but with strengthen, they might survive one turn.

for killing the workers, they towers need of course to be away from tcs. towers next to tcs are much tougher because its harder to kill its workers.

[Huttensohn]

Buffed by druid or tower , my fire archer has now a range of 8, one more than the stone pillar. I think, the tide of the battle will now slowly turn.

[Huttensohn]

wagon, ent, bladesinger also sounds like a terrific combo.

[Anchar]

It surprises me that while you are making these fighters the orc has not yet produced an army of trolls and attacked your territories. The fight between elves and orcs always looks like elves have more territories at first and it seems that they seem to win, but then the orcs study their technologies and the situation changes dramatically. Be careful.

[Huttensohn]

Trolls in this match get stalled by wolves (just block their advance) and burned by multiple fire arrows so far. I also plan to use entangle /slow with upgraded druid range on them.

So there is a kind of death zone between our territories, everything that enters it, gets quickly killed by the other side.

If I would be him, I'd use more shamans and more cavalry. He mostly uses slow foot units and trolls that take multiple shots before reaching my troops. Terrain also helps.

But it is of course really annoying if your arrows only do one damage against armoured master orcs. Magic missile and poison can somewhat mitigate this.

tbh I wouldn't really know how to counter ettins or savage rock hurlers.

[Anchar]

Can't trolls kill a crowd of wolves with their area attack? And that he sends them into battle one by one in the best traditions of AI?

[makazuwr32]

It surprises me that while you are making these fighters the orc has not yet produced an army of trolls and attacked your territories. The fight between elves and orcs always looks like elves have more territories at first and it seems that they seem to win, but then the orcs study their technologies and the situation changes dramatically. Be careful.

Trolls are the least terrifying enemy for elves actually.
Much more painful is an army of armored orcs, orc archers and as sub either giants (especially 5 turn cost hamletbacks) or uruks (3 turn cost uruk hais and uruk archers).

[Anchar]

Well, if you let the trolls in the amount of 2 or more, and heal trolls with shamans, then in principle he can get to the borders of the elves and destroy many buildings, unless he is trapped by 10 or more fire archers who kill him in 1 turn. But yes, orcs in armor with archers in 3 turns and fire spear throwers are more effective.

[makazuwr32]

For me 4 fire archers + 2 slingers is enough to kill in 1-2 turns any troll unit apart from headhunter (for whom i am using either melee units or blade singers).

[Huttensohn]

He is exactly using armored warrior + archer.

Yes, the troll has aoe but it still slows him, especially the crushers. He managed now to kill some support troops by a surprising master marcher advance. 8 range is dann long for a frigging orc.

[Huttensohn]

if an inexperienced elf player is surprised by a troll, this might be their end. But if you are prepared, and have your fire archers ready, maybe already with more range, you can deal with them. It has been quite a learning curve for me.

[Anchar]

have you hidden your archers in towers or are they just standing in an open area?

[Huttensohn]

I would have hidden them, was too stupid to hide them, because I thought I was out of tower range.
It's a steep learning curve!

[Huttensohn]

The battle is very thrilling, its back and forth. I have now finally conquered the undead and have constructed a tree of life. I will recruit a dragon which will try to fly over the rocks and conquer one of the empty enemy tcs. This will bring one factory more and will cause chaos for a few turns, even if he takes it back.
My enemy has now even greater tower range and has destroyed some of my wolf dens and my archers on one side who killed his workers. On the other hand, my opponent kind of stopped repairing and constructing towers, at least in the battle zone, so a few towers have fallen and the bombardment of my contested tc will hopefully stop soon.

bzw, sending in a wolf as first unit in tcs to take a hit has proven extremely helpful.

I'm now very curios how it will go on.

[makazuwr32]

Placing temporary or just unneded units in tc as first ones really helps a lot to defend them.