Giant orc guy vs trebuchet dmg

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DreJaDe
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Giant orc guy vs trebuchet dmg

Post by DreJaDe »

I dont really play AOF anymore because I dont have my own phone now so Im not an expert, this idea just came to me for some reason.

Why is it that Orc 10 range guy have a higher damage than the trebuchet and catapult? I mean, they are basically throwing the same thing arent they? The giant man can also be buffed and whiplashed to easily destroy castles or even just units because of its high damage.

Seems OP to me... This Orc Giant Guy...
Midonik
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Re: Giant orc guy vs trebuchet dmg

Post by Midonik »

It's rock hauler
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Savra
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Re: Giant orc guy vs trebuchet dmg

Post by Savra »

Giant marksmen actually, but I believe I mentioned the whiplash issue somewhere.

Anyway, the giant marksmen actually would be throwing larger projectiles then a trebuchet because its larger and stronger. The trebuchet still has to be loaded by humans therefore ammunition would be limited to just how much they can carry and load.
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makazuwr32
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Re: Giant orc guy vs trebuchet dmg

Post by makazuwr32 »

Whiplash later will be changed to not affect giants and shooters.
As for damage output — as result both rock hurler and trebushet deal to buildings close to same damage (trebushet has approximately x0.5 attack but x2 bonuses when compared to rock hurler).

Catapult is weaker against single target but deals aoe damage.

Rock hurler can be buffed yes, but trebushet can be constructed which means you can produce more of them or just do not waste production of factories and megas for it and instead use workers so it is questionable what is more op...
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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Anchar
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Re: Giant orc guy vs trebuchet dmg

Post by Anchar »

In order to build them, workers are still needed, their construction is a very long-term prospect.

And let's not forget that a stone thrower walks on water without losing speed, and also does not require unpacking, which is simply not conceivable, no race has anything like this power.
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Savra
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Re: Giant orc guy vs trebuchet dmg

Post by Savra »

You have to still research the unit for 5 turns, plus the additional 7 turns to produce. On top of this it has a higher miss chance, with the master one having 30% compared to trebuchet which has 15% all the way through. Also you can get faster production of trebuchet over the marksman as you can produce multiple at once without taking up production space while the marksmen needs a factory to produce. The marksman also only gets full speed in water at master form as well.

In other words their both fairly equal as one is easier to produce and more accurate while the other has mobility and power. Both are fairly easily destroyed as well being that you can counter a trebuchet with just about anything, while the marksmen is similar as you can counter it with any anti thrower, anti giant units. (Essentially Cavalry)
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DreJaDe
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Re: Giant orc guy vs trebuchet dmg

Post by DreJaDe »

makazuwr32 wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:58 pm Whiplash later will be changed to not affect giants and shooters.
As for damage output — as result both rock hurler and trebushet deal to buildings close to same damage (trebushet has approximately x0.5 attack but x2 bonuses when compared to rock hurler).

Catapult is weaker against single target but deals aoe damage.

Rock hurler can be buffed yes, but trebushet can be constructed which means you can produce more of them or just do not waste production of factories and megas for it and instead use workers so it is questionable what is more op...
Its questionable who is more OP?

No, not really.

As Ive said rock hurler can be buffed. They also have higher health and can be spammed by orc since their builder is top notch. While human trebs need so much tech to even upg its stats and also needs a setup without failing to have frontline support. Rock hurler doesnt need such support that much since it can easily retreat with its speed and ability to move to dif terrain.

Wait is it really stronger? Seriously I cant believe that since even shot put athelete could only put 23m max in record and even if I multiply that to 10 which is a lot stronger definitely it would only be on the range of 230m while a trebuchet can reach up to 300m with 30kg of missile in minimum.
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DreJaDe
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Re: Giant orc guy vs trebuchet dmg

Post by DreJaDe »

Savra wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:05 am You have to still research the unit for 5 turns, plus the additional 7 turns to produce. On top of this it has a higher miss chance, with the master one having 30% compared to trebuchet which has 15% all the way through. Also you can get faster production of trebuchet over the marksman as you can produce multiple at once without taking up production space while the marksmen needs a factory to produce. The marksman also only gets full speed in water at master form as well.

In other words their both fairly equal as one is easier to produce and more accurate while the other has mobility and power. Both are fairly easily destroyed as well being that you can counter a trebuchet with just about anything, while the marksmen is similar as you can counter it with any anti thrower, anti giant units. (Essentially Cavalry)
Isnt that the same for trebs? 6 turn for tech and 6 turn to prod in factory. If they have the 4 turn ambixteria. They would still need to contruct it slower than they would for a castle.

Also, the space needed to build trebuchet is also quite significant since the positioning of the worker and where it is going to be build needs planning to not obstruct your other factory way point.
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Anchar
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Re: Giant orc guy vs trebuchet dmg

Post by Anchar »

And this is only if we compare it with a human, but what about the elves and the undead?

The elves have an ent stone thrower who walks slowly, does not build, a maximum range of 9, does not know how to walk on water, although if trolls in armor swim on the ocean along the way throwing their stones, why should not the Ents walk along the bottom?Its only interesting plus is the packing of the Ents into each other, but this is, as I understand it, a flaw.

The undead have nothing like that at all.
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Anchar
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Re: Giant orc guy vs trebuchet dmg

Post by Anchar »

Also, these giants can be healed in% by orcish healers staying at a distance, and this is given that these healers are also not easy to kill + on the giants you can impose a strengthening effect and a shield that allows you to disperse its power and prevent death.

In humans, all you can do is send a weak builder who fixes coming close and dies from 1 shot
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Savra
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Re: Giant orc guy vs trebuchet dmg

Post by Savra »

If we are to compare the giant marksmen to all other races siege units then I might point out that elves ent demolishers are cheaper to get in the fact that you can get the ents in 4 turns compared to other races. Also elves aren't exactly supposed to be strong in ranged anyway. Elves have the elf woodshaper who can heal tents for 50 hp, also elves can speed up their production through wisps who are easier to mass produce at your base.

Undead actually have a monster ballista which has 4 speed and costs just 4 turns with 100% accuracy. Later undead will get a catapult unit that won't get range increasing techs but abilities instead that can be used against either infantry or buildings. Undead will have a high range of 7 but can maneuver on water as well.

Orcs marksman has powerful attack and good maneuverability however they have less ranged armour then humans and elves giants and also have poorer accuracy then the other 2 meaning its not ideal for use against enemy war units.

Orcs shamans may be strong but they are costly, like elves, except the difference is that elves ones come with more abilities while orcs ones just have more survivability. Also 100% regen is going to be transferred to a giant shaman and being replaced with something else.

When they finish with the abilities update the orcs abilities will most likely be scaled back to probably half of what they are now, while current ones will be the max upgrades abilities. Each race will have similarly powerful abilities for example elves currently have barkskin which when the ability update comes will probably grant units +5/+5 armour, that includes ents.


When the balance update comes out, which if you want to come out quicker I suggest to point out bugs over just orc problems as a lot of other races units and structures are on hold because of the balance update and these constant orc problem topics that keep popping up. All of which could be solved when that update comes, so the sooner the better.
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Anchar
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Re: Giant orc guy vs trebuchet dmg

Post by Anchar »

Well, yes, yes, we endure and wait for the new mega super update. Until then, we enjoy the battles with the orcs and feel like a middle-earth fighting Sauron.
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Savra
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Re: Giant orc guy vs trebuchet dmg

Post by Savra »

True, true... :lol:

Hopefully it will clear things up so we can then start working on dwarves and scaledfolks.
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DreJaDe
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Re: Giant orc guy vs trebuchet dmg

Post by DreJaDe »

Anchar wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:00 am Well, yes, yes, we endure and wait for the new mega super update. Until then, we enjoy the battles with the orcs and feel like a middle-earth fighting Sauron.
Not a good analogy but I understand. Orc in LoTR is weaker than humans individually. But I do undestand your point lol.
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Re: Giant orc guy vs trebuchet dmg

Post by makazuwr32 »

DreJaDe wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:08 am
makazuwr32 wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:58 pm .....
Its questionable who is more OP?

No, not really.

As Ive said rock hurler can be buffed. They also have higher health and can be spammed by orc since their builder is top notch.
This will be changed later, during stats update. All races will become a bit more equial in terms of workers and their construction rates.
Ambidextria of humans in current variant will be moved to elves (with lower value) while humans will get tiers for their both worker and laborer. CURRENT Mega buildings will be built later MUCH SLOWER (for all races) but they also will become much more tough.


While human trebs need so much tech to even upg its stats and also needs a setup without failing to have frontline support. Rock hurler doesnt need such support that much since it can easily retreat with its speed and ability to move to dif terrain.
Well only problem is ability to cross nearly all terrains for rock hurler which as for me makes him a bit unbalanced.
Elves have only 1 sub ready. Later elves will get mechanical siege units with rising sun elves and way to grow all ents and most of buildings with sproutling unit (less costly).
Ents later would be able to cross water by the way.

Packing ents into each other is a bug.

Barkskin will give in current stats +Spell Power/2 in current stats bonus armor (ofc it will be increased with stats update).

In general i agree that we need to find and finish all bugs before balance update (like that ent stacking bug).
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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Re: Giant orc guy vs trebuchet dmg

Post by makazuwr32 »

DreJaDe wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:14 am
Anchar wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:00 am Well, yes, yes, we endure and wait for the new mega super update. Until then, we enjoy the battles with the orcs and feel like a middle-earth fighting Sauron.
Not a good analogy but I understand. Orc in LoTR is weaker than humans individually. But I do undestand your point lol.
It is not right to compare orcs with 3 nearly full subs and elves who have close to ready only base race (they require mounts, glades also will require mounts and captain).
For multiple versions orcs were the ones who got updates (units, techs) during them.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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Re: Giant orc guy vs trebuchet dmg

Post by Shark guy 35 »

Giant orc guy, sounds like something I would say XD
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Re: Giant orc guy vs trebuchet dmg

Post by makazuwr32 »

Is set as answered, alas some balance later will be required.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
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