Roman Promotion

[DreJaDe]

Some wild ideas and suggestion

1. An ability for centurion to promote a hastati or principe to their respective upgrade.
- Through tech - 6 turn cost
- Ability - 3-5 CD

2. Time limit promotion, if the hastati line of units wasn't able to promote itself for N number of turns, it will automatically promote itself to the next upgrade.
-time limit - 10 turns

It really takes time to promote hastati. I've been trying to spam them in games and it seems that people can still promote other units much faster than hastati could be. Even just the 1 of them.

[b2198]

I like the first idea. Makes centurion also have a backline utility, kinda like crusade leader. Also the second one might be too strong and incentivize too much turtling imo.

[DreJaDe]

I like the first idea. Makes centurion also have a backline utility, kinda like crusade leader. Also the second one might be too strong and incentivize too much turtling imo.

I don't see it as too strong cause normal upgrade cost 6-12 turns for all... This will need at least 10-20 turns for both upgrades. And their main tactic for me is really indeed turtling though an offensive turtling like real phalanx.

I was thinking that since it only cost 2 turns, I have to account for like 1-2 turns extra for their real cost so 10 turns.

[Endru1241]

To be honest - I wanted to add effect to make transformation after some amount of turns, regardless of fighting.
At the very start I thought it would be good to have a backup in case luck was bad and promotion didn't happen after some 10 turns or so.

But I decided against it in the end for few reasons:
- there would be problems with deciding about dispelling - either transformation itself would need to dispel everything or triggering promotion would need to dispel regular transformation (which could actually make it later than normal) or risking rare chance to have it transformed to principes back from triarii, because of remaining effect
- would promote turtling with units until upgraded themselves
- I hoped for quick fix to effect not triggering when enemy unit is killed by attack

For now I still think it would be all OK if only the last thing was actually fixed in the engine or some other kind of effect triggering was introduced, that could be used here.
Right now it's really overly complicated, but it's the only way.
There is weapon effect Promotion chance, that has fixed chance of happening on each attack against alive target (unfortunately excluding attacks, that kill target), which upon being triggered launches SYSTEM_SPECIAL_EFFECT_TARGET_AND_AREA effect with range 1, but with HIMSELF set as only potential target (because weapon effects are always centered on target attacked it had to be in such weird way) and then related effect of transformation with 2/3 turns suspension is cast at unit.

What I can do immediately is e.g. raising the chance and unfortunately not by tech (impossible in current engine), but since start.
Other ways are also possible, but I really like the concept behind having to actually fight to be promoted.

[DreJaDe]

but I really like the concept behind having to actually fight to be promoted.

I'm definitely with you here but on my games. There are just those turtle people... Makes me wonder if they can get promoted for hitting towers which never happened in my games.

What I can do immediately is e.g. raising the chance and unfortunately not by tech (impossible in current engine), but since start.

I also wanted to ask for this, but im not too sure if I am just unlucky to get so low promotion so i didn't. (I'm not sure with the chance basically)

there would be problems with deciding about dispelling - either transformation itself would need to dispel everything or triggering promotion would need to dispel regular transformation (which could actually make it later than normal) or risking rare chance to have it transformed to principes back from triarii, because of remaining effect

I'm definitely not better on this but what if promotion aura dispels each other? I mean, if my hastati already gained the promotion to principe I think it's already ok to dispell the other promotion time limit regardless if that one was lower in turns.
I think that's basically what you said in some of that but im not sure so I wrote my idea.

would promote turtling with units until upgraded themselves

Ok, I'll admit. Promotion for hastati line made me become to become that guy that conserve my troops. But I don't think that there is in any way bad to this as this is 1/1 basis and not 1/ALL. And it's not limited to promotion but also to heals... It's really just different feeling in saving them unlike normal units.

[Endru1241]

but I really like the concept behind having to actually fight to be promoted.

I'm definitely with you here but on my games. There are just those turtle people... Makes me wonder if they can get promoted for hitting towers which never happened in my games.

Nope - only alive targets right now.

What I can do immediately is e.g. raising the chance and unfortunately not by tech (impossible in current engine), but since start.

I also wanted to ask for this, but im not too sure if I am just unlucky to get so low promotion so i didn't. (I'm not sure with the chance basically)

I have tested if probability is right - it is.
The most often occurrence, that would mess with getting promotion is imho no trigger, when enemy is finished.

there would be problems with deciding about dispelling - either transformation itself would need to dispel everything or triggering promotion would need to dispel regular transformation (which could actually make it later than normal) or risking rare chance to have it transformed to principes back from triarii, because of remaining effect

I'm definitely not better on this but what if promotion aura dispels each other? I mean, if my hastati already gained the promotion to principe I think it's already ok to dispell the other promotion time limit regardless if that one was lower in turns.
I think that's basically what you said in some of that but im not sure so I wrote my idea.

Noted.

would promote turtling with units until upgraded themselves

Ok, I'll admit. Promotion for hastati line made me become to become that guy that conserve my troops. But I don't think that there is in any way bad to this as this is 1/1 basis and not 1/ALL. And it's not limited to promotion but also to heals... It's really just different feeling in saving them unlike normal units.

Well - conservation of troops, that were used for attacking is not turtle tactic, but just basics of most strategy.
Unless hidden in multiple towers and never leaving the base.