Abilities can not target TC-s - solution Q

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Stratego (dev)
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Abilities can not target TC-s - solution Q

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sun May 03, 2020 5:53 pm

not they can not as most abilities are filetered to target some kind of units.
but as attacking TS are attacking their contained units - maybe we should be able to cast abilities too.

so optionsa
a) this way, they can not taget them
b) always can target, and among contained units the first that ws targetable receives the effect/ability
c) can only target if TC contains a unit that is targetable (this way it is like a spying into TC as you can guess what is in it)
d) can target the first unit in tc (as the attack would work), and can target the tc only if that first unit is targetable.

good point mentioned: convert spells and abilities should still not work.

which would u chose?

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makazuwr32
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Re: Abilities can not target TC-s - solution Q

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun May 03, 2020 7:54 pm

I would choose b + c but for limited set of abilities. Some abilities still must not be able to target units in tc.

What do i mean under "b + c":
Ability that is set to be able to target tc always can target units inside IF there are possible targets for that ability. And ofc among those units first unit that can be targeted receives effect.

For example in aof:
We have in tc 3 units - golden battering ram of humans (mechanical and thus unaffected by poison, fearless), skeleton shielder (standart one, as undead later will be unaffected by poison but affected by fear), and some random swordman of uruks (0% spell resist, is affected by fear effect and by poison).
And we have 3 casters with single target abilities:
Mummy with fear (possible targets among those are skeleton shielder and uruk hai);
Random guy with split poison (planned ability for skeleton dragons, similar to split fire but with limits of poison effect in case of possible targets);
One of mages with magic missle.

All 3 abilities for example will be able to target units in tc.

In case of fear affected unit must be skeleton shielder, in case of split poison — uruk hai, and only in case of magic missle must be affected battering ram.

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AgentA
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Re: Abilities can not target TC-s - solution Q

Post by AgentA » Mon May 04, 2020 6:19 am

I don't think it will be a good in AoS. The TC works definitely fine as of now. It serves as your last resort of protection and recovery against negative effect spells specially if your units do not have spell resistance. As for positive effect spells, if such spells are allowed to be used to unit inside TC, then it will be easier to buff a unit without exposing it which leads to more guesses on the opposite side and ineficiency of vision because you don't know what just happened until you got surprised by an Axe Thrower with +4 attack power, +1 range, 3 actions, and +2 speed.

Imagine converting a unit inside a TC, will that TC be automatically captured even if there are still enemy inside TC? Even so, it will seem weird and illegal. But it's your game, you can legalize it.

Also... imagine having 3 TCs reachable in 3 tiles or less to each other... TC1 contains let's say a Spartan, Herbalist, Bard, Battlefield Blacksmith. TC2 has Heavy War Elphant, Coolguy, Heavy Ballista, Heavy Trebuchet. TC3 has Centurion, Priest x6 in Rams in Wagon, Net Thrower, Peasant Stone Thrower. The healers can heal these tankers to full HP in every turn. There are many possible combinations that can give the defender a potential absolute defense... and didn't I mention Fortified TCs? :lol:

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Re: Abilities can not target TC-s - solution Q

Post by Stratego (dev) » Mon May 04, 2020 6:30 am

ok, so you say leaving it as it is? (option "a")

also i made a new option.
d) can target the first unit in tc (as the attack would work), and can target the tc only if that first unit is targetable.

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AgentA
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Re: Abilities can not target TC-s - solution Q

Post by AgentA » Mon May 04, 2020 7:50 am

Stratego (dev) wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 6:30 am
ok, so you say leaving it as it is? (option "a")
Yes. I prefer option a. But that's just my opinion though.

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Endru1241
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Re: Abilities can not target TC-s - solution Q

Post by Endru1241 » Mon May 04, 2020 10:17 am

Option e) - each effect can be set to be:
1. affecting all
2. affecting first
3. affecting first target-able
4. cannot be casted
and optionally separate setting 5. cast only if any affected

Why the split?
Effects, that simulates attacks should work like option d), so they would be set in effect json as 2.
Environmental attack effects (explosions, dragon breaths) should have it set as 1.
Buffs / healing could have 3. set
Conversion, maybe also debuffs would have it as 4.

5. exists for e.g. healing

Of course if we are at it - hardcoded effects - mend and heal could be set to some option - this way we could get rid of illogical + heal rate bonus of tc - instead healer could just use heal on the same tile (self) if engine would have set heal effect to be 3.
Allowing mend inside tc won't be much of a problem in balance if we introduce whole machine packing changes (in this case specifically - allowing only packed, weaker ram inside buildings, including TC).
Age of Strategy design leader

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makazuwr32
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Re: Abilities can not target TC-s - solution Q

Post by makazuwr32 » Mon May 04, 2020 10:55 am

I support endru.

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Re: Abilities can not target TC-s - solution Q

Post by Stratego (dev) » Tue May 05, 2020 8:05 am

ok so these flags will be:
CAN_TARGET_TC_ALL (targetable)
CAN_TARGET_TC_FIRST (if targetable)
CAN_TARGET_TC_FIRST_TARGETABLE
(targeting "none" is the default when neither of above set - this is how it is working currently)

question: if effect set to CAN_TARGET_TC_ALL and no any unit is there that would be targeted - what should happen? mabe could work as the 5th option (can be the same) so ALL: can affect all (eg. environmentals) and all that is targetable will get the effect, and in case of a spell TC still can not be targeted if non of them targetable inside.

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Re: Abilities can not target TC-s - solution Q

Post by Stratego (dev) » Tue May 05, 2020 8:14 am

ok herer are with comments:

Code: Select all

        CAN_TARGET_TC_ALL,              // if set: the spell can target the the TC if at least one is targetable and will affect all targetable
        CAN_TARGET_TC_FIRST,            // if set: the spell can target the tc if the first unit is targetable, only that unit will receive the effect
        CAN_TARGET_TC_FIRST_TARGETABLE, // if set: the spell can target the tc any of units is targetable, but only first of them will get the effect 
 

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Re: Abilities can not target TC-s - solution Q

Post by Stratego (dev) » Tue May 05, 2020 10:15 am

CAN_TARGET_TC_ALL will not get implemented yet as that seems very dangerous to touch.



these are in

Code: Select all

        
        CAN_TARGET_TC_FIRST,            // if set: the spell can target the tc if the first unit is targetable, only that unit will receive the effect
        CAN_TARGET_TC_FIRST_TARGETABLE, // if set: the spell can target the tc any of units is targetable, but only first of them will get the effect 
 
uos 60 in AOS
(i set the cannonball ability to test atm, also the herblist herbal protection)

please test it!

it can affect:
- any attack types (normal ones too)
- ainluding splash damage ones (like catapult)
- it can affect bridge targeting behaviors (when units are on bridge)
- targetable spells
- mabe environamentals too
- also AI needs testing for all above.

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makazuwr32
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Re: Abilities can not target TC-s - solution Q

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue May 05, 2020 10:14 pm

I think "CAN_TARGET_ALL" still must be added.

In aof i want it to be used for aoe spells like fireball.

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