Fencer

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Morningwarrior
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Fencer

Post by Morningwarrior » Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:00 am

Hp:15
Damge:8
Range:1
Speed:3
Actions:2
Armor:0
Pierce armor:0
Sight:5
Melee dodge:45%
Cost:3
+50%damage vs melee foot and melee light.
Glory to doritos,remember.

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LordOfAles
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Re: Fencer

Post by LordOfAles » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:44 pm

Fencers weren't used on battlefield, they were dueling other fencers. Frankly, i don't think a fencing blade could deal more than 5 damage.
The Crusade never ends...

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Morningwarrior
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Re: Fencer

Post by Morningwarrior » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:48 pm

Hmmmm, maybe 6 damage,is best.
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Gral.Sturnn
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Re: Fencer

Post by Gral.Sturnn » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:57 am

well to be fair a thrust is more dangerous than a cut
~Gral.Sturnn

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Endru1241
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Re: Fencer

Post by Endru1241 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:13 am

Thrust is more dangerous only against armored enemy.
It's not though on lightly armored or unarmored - in these cases bladed weapons were used in great effectiveness (a slight slash can make enemy bleed to death, all while not risking breaking Your weapon). In many areas, where armor was hard to come by (either by lack of proper materials or climate which didn't exactly make wearing it comfortable - e.g. desert, thundra) most warriors used some sort of sabers or axes.

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Gral.Sturnn
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Re: Fencer

Post by Gral.Sturnn » Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:17 am

Indeed cuts are more deadly on unarmored oponents but it is not against armored (like mentioned above) but that doesent mean thrusts arent any less deadly on unarmored opponents either, I would say they are even deadlier as they have an easier time going through the body
~Gral.Sturnn

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Endru1241
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Re: Fencer

Post by Endru1241 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:52 am

Well. Thrusting weapon - spear was used in the whole world (it was deadly), but it was poor man's weapon.
Sword - classical knight side arm was designed to slash and thrust.
In middle east desert (too hot for good armor) warriors used scmitars (kind of a sabre), in the norther europe (too cold for good armor) - axes, most steppe people (armor too heavy, horseman looses mobility) used sabres as cavalry weapon, japanese knights used katana (iron was too pricey - most people in army were unarmored or lightly armored).
It's only few examples, but in the whole history blades of various kinds were dominant on battlefields, where most army was lightly armored at most.
While thrusting weapons became used more, when armor began to be better and cheaper in europe.

All in all - fencing blade could never be used successfully on battlefield, and even if we assume rapier as a fencer main weapon - it's not very effective war weapon (too delicate, easy to break on armor).

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Gral.Sturnn
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Re: Fencer

Post by Gral.Sturnn » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:24 pm

correct, but the mongols did have heavy armored warriors on horseback, also samurais used spears more than katanas, katanas are just glorified sidearms
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Endru1241
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Re: Fencer

Post by Endru1241 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:21 pm

Gloried the same as european sword.
To be truthful - Japanese used various sabers (Dao) up to high middle age, later more prevalent became Yari - a little more universal weapon. With them they probably used slashing swipe vs poor infantry and thrusts against more armored people. And most mongol forces were light cavalry with sabers - only smaller part were heavier armored and using lances.

Sabre or axe swing doesn't require so much power as thrust, they are also harder to dodge and thus more accurate in melee (I know, that they are also easier to block in the same time, but unarmored opponent hardly had anything to block weapon with).
I know most of the time thrusting weapon were used side by side with slashing ones (and commonly were the same weapon, only used differently).
I just disagree about thrust being superior. It's pure physics - swing damages more tissue, severs more veins, can damage more organs by blunt force of the impact. Thrust have much, much lower area of strike. They penetrate the flesh, they penetrate the armor much better. But unless accurately stroken in vital organs they did less damage to the body.
"Thrust is more dangerous than a cut" may be used in case of knifes, as they do not have properties do do a proper swing cut.

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Gral.Sturnn
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Re: Fencer

Post by Gral.Sturnn » Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:48 pm

well your points are true but a thrust takes more time to heal an it is harder to treat
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Morningwarrior
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Fencer(re post and updated)

Post by Morningwarrior » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:53 pm

Hp:16
Damge:5
Range:1
Speed:3
Actions:1
Armor:0
Pierce armor:0
Sight:4
Melee dodge:50%
Cost:3
+100%vs light melee
+25%vs medium melee
+40%vs foot archer
Glory to doritos,remember.

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Endru1241
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Re: Fencer

Post by Endru1241 » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:02 pm

Merged.
Please post in already created topic.
Morningwarrior wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:53 pm
Melee dodge:50%
That is the part neither me nor stratego will agree about.
AoS is all about strategy, like the name applies, so any increase in randomness is bad.
Few changes I've done were actually to lessen randomness in the game.

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Morningwarrior
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Re: Fencer

Post by Morningwarrior » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:04 pm

Ok endru,sorry.
Glory to doritos,remember.

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Gral.Sturnn
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Re: Fencer

Post by Gral.Sturnn » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:10 pm

Reallisticly wars have a lot of random factors, they arent simplified equations.

Both modern and medieval wars have decid8ng factors that cannot be predicted.

Eitherway its totally necesary for games like Aos to be as uniform and constant as possible to make it fun and balanced.
~Gral.Sturnn

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Endru1241
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Re: Fencer

Post by Endru1241 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:40 am

Not necessarily. Most "randomness" on battlefield is really insufficient knowledge about enemy or even own forces. With more uniform forces and bigger armies average stats assigned to unit are more accurate.
The most spectacular wins among historical battles could easily be presented by stats, because they were won thanks to unknown by enemy technology, hidden forces, new tactic.

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Gral.Sturnn
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Re: Double macemen

Post by Gral.Sturnn » Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:58 am

Military intelligence and data gathering pretty much, yeah. With the better example being the US. But again not everything can be predicted and responded addecuately if it was that way, wars would last very little.
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Gral.Sturnn
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Re: Double macemen

Post by Gral.Sturnn » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:17 am

A good example is that at the beginning of WW1 the french tought that of theu fored enough artillery to the german trenches they would be weak enough for the infantry to take them. Bad surprise when they found out the germans werent as weak as they thought theu would be after days of shelling. Consecuently the french lost tons of men on the initial charges.
~Gral.Sturnn

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godOfKings
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Re: Double macemen

Post by godOfKings » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:13 am

Wat r u talking about? Is this off topic? Personally I think this should b answered
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For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

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Endru1241
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Re: Double macemen

Post by Endru1241 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:16 am

godOfKings wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:13 am
Wat r u talking about? Is this off topic? Personally I think this should b answered
Thanks for noticing. Moved posts.
Gral.Sturnn wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:58 am
Military intelligence and data gathering pretty much, yeah. With the better example being the US. But again not everything can be predicted and responded addecuately if it was that way, wars would last very little.
Sure. Life is unpredictable, after all. But for the sake of strategic planning it could be simplified to skip most random chances.
When One moves plans to reality there will always be some tolerance included - at least 5-10% more forces, just to be sure.

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