Undead Lancers

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DoomsdayDragonfire
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Undead Lancers

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:35 am

Was wondering why we don't had made a mounted anti-calvary unit yet for undeads. So i made Undead lancers, stats based on AoS lancers and Undead Knight.
Undead Lancer.png
Undead Lancer.png (1.14 KiB) Viewed 1521 times
Undead lancer

Cost: 4
Hp: 26
Attack: 5
Range: 1
Armor: 0
P.Armor: 5
Speed: 4
Sight: 5
Action: 1
Spell Resist: 0%

50% against infantry, 400% againt calvary, 700% against heavy calvary.
Undead Lancer  Armored.png
Undead Lancer Armored.png (1.18 KiB) Viewed 1521 times
Armored Undead Lancer

Cost: 4
Hp: 32
Attack: 7
Range: 1
Armor: 1
P.Armor: 6
Speed: 4
Sight: 5
Action: 1
Spell Resist: 0%

50% against infantry, 400% againt calvary, 700% against heavy calvary.
Undead Lancer Gold.png
Undead Lancer Gold.png (1.3 KiB) Viewed 1521 times
Golden Undead lancer

Cost: 4
Hp: 38
Attack: 9
Range: 1
Armor: 2
P.Armor: 7
Speed: 4
Sight: 5
Action: 1
Spell Resist: 0%

50% against infantry, 400% againt calvary, 700% against heavy calvary.
Breaking the barrier of "work for the job" to "put the job to work for you" is a thing that i want to reach someday aswell... Probably i should make some notes about it...
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Savra
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by Savra » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:23 am

Looks great. Does this mean scaledfolk have to have them too though? Or we keeping with... Oh wait the brute topic that's right.
Remember to check the unit ready list for AOF to see for any changes.
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=6289

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DoomsdayDragonfire
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:40 am

Scalefolk probably should have at least one mounted anti-calvary aswell, but since i'm not into much of the scalefolks, i can't say what they are lacking or not.
Breaking the barrier of "work for the job" to "put the job to work for you" is a thing that i want to reach someday aswell... Probably i should make some notes about it...
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Tankhead
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by Tankhead » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:47 am

This can get in easily
"The smallest pebble was once the biggest stone, the biggest stone was once bigger"

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General Brave
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by General Brave » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:31 pm

I'm guessing this is OK.
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StormSaint373
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by StormSaint373 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:55 pm

Pretty good idea... Also compare to raptor riders
Beware the calm before the Tempest. . .

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makazuwr32
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by makazuwr32 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:10 pm

They need different bonuses (based on raptor riders) and a bit lower hp (lower hp of all by 4). But otherwise looks good.
Specifically for not so genious persons
makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 am
IT IS ALWAYS EASIER TO CORRECT EXISTING THINGS THAN TO MAKE SOMETHING NEW FROM SCRAP. © by Makazuwr32™.

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DoomsdayDragonfire
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:41 pm

makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:10 pm
They need different bonuses (based on raptor riders) and a bit lower hp (lower hp of all by 4). But otherwise looks good.
Why does it need different bonuses if raptor riders are light anti-calvary scout units and Undead Lancers are the standard knight (with already -5 health) with a spear? You want me to increase their base damage? (that is the lowest of the kind, making it trully specialized on calvary) So the bonuses can be lowered? I can decrease the health p/lvl to 5 instead of 6, to be same as the undead knight upgrades, but the other part i need more reasons to be convinced to change. So tell me exactly what you want. If you can provide how much you want of bonus and how much you want the base dmg to be increase then post here.
StormSaint373 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:55 pm
Pretty good idea... Also compare to raptor riders
I guess there is not much to compare, lights/scouts get destroyed by standard units version on battle :twisted: . So the anti-calvary scout is oneshotable by the anti-calvary knight when same levels... But if you want to see it by yourself. These are the stats of raptor riders to comparasion. 8-)

Raptor rider

Cost: 3
Hp: 20
Attack: 8
Range: 1
Armor: 1
P.Armor: 1
Speed: 6
Sight: 7
Action: 1
Spell Resist: 0%
Abilities: Poison weapon

150% againt calvary

it increase 2 atk, 1/1 armor and 4 health per level.
Breaking the barrier of "work for the job" to "put the job to work for you" is a thing that i want to reach someday aswell... Probably i should make some notes about it...
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makazuwr32
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:26 am

It has too much still damage to cavalry:
I don't like bonus. Instead increase damage by 2.

IF @Alexander82 approves it than so be it. But as for me all lancers must have raptor rider's bonus.
NOT ONLY Raptor riders and Bear riders.
Specifically for not so genious persons
makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 am
IT IS ALWAYS EASIER TO CORRECT EXISTING THINGS THAN TO MAKE SOMETHING NEW FROM SCRAP. © by Makazuwr32™.

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DoomsdayDragonfire
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:01 pm

I was making some researches about mouted calvary battles, then i noticed that lancers actually have really big spears, and the ones i made on those imgs where looking really small to the size of what it should be, so i changed. The first ones that i made had too much blood, so i made clean weapons this time. But will put the blood soaked ones bcz why not? :lol:
Undead Lancer 2.png
Undead Lancer 2.png (1.28 KiB) Viewed 1429 times
Undead Lancer Armored 2.2.png
Undead Lancer Armored 2.2.png (1.27 KiB) Viewed 1429 times
Undead Lancer Gold 2.2.png
Undead Lancer Gold 2.2.png (1.44 KiB) Viewed 1429 times
and
Undead Lancer Armored 2.png
Undead Lancer Armored 2.png (1.26 KiB) Viewed 1429 times
Undead Lancer Gold 2.png
Undead Lancer Gold 2.png (1.45 KiB) Viewed 1429 times
Breaking the barrier of "work for the job" to "put the job to work for you" is a thing that i want to reach someday aswell... Probably i should make some notes about it...
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

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StormSaint373
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by StormSaint373 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:07 pm

Whoa! *Gasps in astonishment*

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Beware the calm before the Tempest. . .

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Savra
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by Savra » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:12 pm

Looks great.
Remember to check the unit ready list for AOF to see for any changes.
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=6289

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Tankhead
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by Tankhead » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:08 am

What's with the end of the weapons
Fading?
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Typhoon
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by Typhoon » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:59 pm

Definetely great addition to fearful undead cavalry
Peace was never an option

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Tankhead
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by Tankhead » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:23 am

Gonna start Jsoning this Also
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by General Brave » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:44 am

Okay then I guess.
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Tankhead
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by Tankhead » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:56 am

@DoomsdayDragonfire
@makazuwr32

Please make up y'alls mind on the bonus part
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:25 am

Bonuses must be raptor rider-based ones.
Only. No bonuses to infantries or 700% bonuses to heavy cav...
Instead increase base damage of all by +2 and decrease hp to 25/30/35.
Specifically for not so genious persons
makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 am
IT IS ALWAYS EASIER TO CORRECT EXISTING THINGS THAN TO MAKE SOMETHING NEW FROM SCRAP. © by Makazuwr32™.

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DoomsdayDragonfire
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:22 pm

makazuwr32 wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:25 am
Bonuses must be raptor rider-based ones.
Only. No bonuses to infantries or 700% bonuses to heavy cav...
Instead increase base damage of all by +2 and decrease hp to 25/30/35.
Those stats are intended for the undead raptor ones, you probably remember them (i guess). These are intended to be stronger and give a higher punch in battle so 2 having same stats is kinda redundant (for the bad way).
Breaking the barrier of "work for the job" to "put the job to work for you" is a thing that i want to reach someday aswell... Probably i should make some notes about it...
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by General Brave » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:14 am

Well whatever works, having these would be nice.
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Tankhead
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by Tankhead » Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:13 am

I can't complete The file not knowing the bonus
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makazuwr32
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by makazuwr32 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:34 am

No. For now all lancers must have this bonus.
Specifically for not so genious persons
makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 am
IT IS ALWAYS EASIER TO CORRECT EXISTING THINGS THAN TO MAKE SOMETHING NEW FROM SCRAP. © by Makazuwr32™.

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DoomsdayDragonfire
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:24 pm

Then until we don't own a category to fit them in, we will have to add und raptor riders first, then these ones later on.
Breaking the barrier of "work for the job" to "put the job to work for you" is a thing that i want to reach someday aswell... Probably i should make some notes about it...
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

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makazuwr32
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by makazuwr32 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:58 pm

If you want them to deal more damage than they can just have higher base damage.
Maybe even just lowered by 1 skeleton knight values (so 11/14/17 attack + 150% bonus).
Total damage dealt by them to enemy normal cav would be 27.5/35/42.5 excluding armor. Against heavy cav they will do 38.5/49/59.5 damage excluding armor.
For comparison harnessed raptor rider deals to normal cav 30 damage and basic one 20.

Also i want to add them some spell resistance (armored - 10%; gold - 20%) and speed 5 for gold variant.


But 400% bonus to enemy cavalry is too much and 700% against heavy cavalry is ridicilous.
Specifically for not so genious persons
makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 am
IT IS ALWAYS EASIER TO CORRECT EXISTING THINGS THAN TO MAKE SOMETHING NEW FROM SCRAP. © by Makazuwr32™.

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Tankhead
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by Tankhead » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:44 pm

Oh I can do that, as long as they're agreement
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DoomsdayDragonfire
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:50 pm

My view for them is to be specialised on taking down cavalry, and a bit vulnerable against the rest, not a all around unit like the knight, so it isn't a thing to increase base dmg... That's why i prefer AOS Lancer bonuses, the current damage charts are 25/35/45 dmg to standard cav, 40/56/72 dmg to heavy cav, 7,5/10,5/13,5 dmg to infantry (because it is a mounted unit) and 5, 7 and 9 dmg to anything else, so your propose was actually much lower than my expectations for anti cav and too much high to the rest... Those bonuses fit to Und raptor riders, but not for lancers. So i'm still not much convinced about it... Anyway, let ppl vote for it, we both probably would keep this forever, so better have other ppl to decide aswell, if they prefer a specialized or a balanced version. That will settle this so it can be put at last on game.
Breaking the barrier of "work for the job" to "put the job to work for you" is a thing that i want to reach someday aswell... Probably i should make some notes about it...
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makazuwr32
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by makazuwr32 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:26 am

It deals too much damage against heavy mounted units which i don't like.
Specifically for not so genious persons
makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 am
IT IS ALWAYS EASIER TO CORRECT EXISTING THINGS THAN TO MAKE SOMETHING NEW FROM SCRAP. © by Makazuwr32™.

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Tankhead
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by Tankhead » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:27 am

Well.....as a dwarf lover and player
I don't want my 6 turn heavy boar rider ( new unit coming in very soon ) killed by a 4 turn lancer in 1 turn.
It would make mounts useless
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makazuwr32
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by makazuwr32 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:42 am

Well it won't count as heavy mount unit. It hass too little amount of health. But i think caragor riders must count as heavy cav.
Specifically for not so genious persons
makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 am
IT IS ALWAYS EASIER TO CORRECT EXISTING THINGS THAN TO MAKE SOMETHING NEW FROM SCRAP. © by Makazuwr32™.

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DoomsdayDragonfire
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Re: Undead Lancers

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:50 pm

Tankhead wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:27 am
Well.....as a dwarf lover and player
I don't want my 6 turn heavy boar rider ( new unit coming in very soon ) killed by a 4 turn lancer in 1 turn.
It would make mounts useless
That's exactly why you should think before h̶o̶r̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶r̶o̶u̶n̶d̶ rushing cavalry (or any other heavy unit in general) around the map, you never know what is the tatic the other player is using (unless you play a lot with him) or what is he hiding on his pocket.
Breaking the barrier of "work for the job" to "put the job to work for you" is a thing that i want to reach someday aswell... Probably i should make some notes about it...
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