Lich redesign

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Typhoon
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Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:28 pm

Lich redesign

Post by Typhoon » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:55 pm

Liches are fearful and powerful undead mages whose are using their magic to keep their army and themselve alive.
But right now they are really fragile units that can easily die. In answer I would like to introduce 2 main concepts of change. They are similar yet diffrent

Makazuwr32's Concept
Cost - 6 turns
Hp - 14
Attack - 3
Range - 1
Armor - 0/3
Speed - 2
Sight - 8
Spell resist - 40%
Abilities:
-Convert
-Hell of pain by sacrifice
-Raise dead
-Summon skeleton dragon
-http://www.androidutils.com/forum/viewt ... d6e#p72917
-Mind corruption - unit becomes neutral hostile, gains 200% spell resist, +1 action. 30% chance, cooldown - 4 turns.

My concept
Cost -6
Hp -18
Attack power -5
range- 1
armor -0/3
speed -2
sight -5
Spell resist -50%
Spells:
-Raise dead
-Summon undead dragon
-Life drain: deals 6 damage and gives 6 hp to user
-Pain and hit
-Hell of pain by sacrifice
Peace was never an option

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Lynx Shafir
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Re: Lich redesign

Post by Lynx Shafir » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:10 pm

1)Hp upgrade surely needed.
Sight 6-at least.
why increase cost. ?
2)may consider the extra skills for an upgrade version. (Lich King)
3 Life siphon/drain sounds good instead of "pain and hit" - may Heal self only according to the dmg dealt - I suggested once a similar effect.
4)there is a "shadow trickery" skill suggestion - not accepted - allow to turn invisible.
For naturally blood will be of kind
Drawn-to blood, where he may it find.

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StormSaint373
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Location: USA, East Ohio

Re: Lich redesign

Post by StormSaint373 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:14 pm

StormSaint's Concept

Cost: 8
Hp: 24
Att: 6
Range: 1
Vision: 8
Armor/Pierce: 0/3
Speed: 2
Action/turn: 3
Spell Resistance: 100%

Spells:
Animate Dead: range 10
Summon Skeletal Dragon
Hell of pain by Sacrifice
Rotten: range 6
Shadow Trickery (if implemented)
Dominate: 50% convert

NOTE: even with 100% spell Resistance, they are still affected by AOE Fireball, thunderstorm, dragon's breath, etc.
Last edited by StormSaint373 on Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Beware the calm before the Tempest. . .

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Typhoon
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Re: Lich redesign

Post by Typhoon » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:24 pm

Lynx Shafir wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:10 pm
1)Hp upgrade surely needed.
Sight 6-at least.
why increase cost. ?
Yes
I will think about that
Because its no longer that easy to kill
Lynx Shafir wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:10 pm
2)may consider the extra skills for an upgrade version. (Lich King)
If we are going to upgrade him someday I would prefer name Archlich
Lynx Shafir wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:10 pm
3 Life siphon/drain sounds good instead of "pain and hit" - may Heal self only according to the dmg dealt - I suggested once a similar effect.
I would like to keep pain and hit so lich may use it when he's already full on health
Lynx Shafir wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:10 pm
4)there is a "shadow trickery" skill suggestion - not accepted - allow to turn invisible.
Yes unfortunately
Peace was never an option

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Lynx Shafir
Posts: 1454
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 4:24 am

Re: Lich redesign

Post by Lynx Shafir » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:28 pm

Could sby post here the Lich img. Pls
I'd try an illusion form on it
For naturally blood will be of kind
Drawn-to blood, where he may it find.

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makazuwr32
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Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Lich redesign

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:35 am

Typhoon wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:55 pm
Makazuwr32's Concept
Cost - 6 turns
Hp - 14
Attack - 3
Range - 1
Armor - 0/3
Speed - 2
Sight - 8
Spell resist - 40%
Abilities:
-Convert
-Hell of pain by sacrifice
-Raise dead
-Summon skeleton dragon
-Shadow trickery
-Mind corruption - unit becomes neutral hostile, gains 200% spell resist, +1 action. 30% chance, cooldown - 4 turns.
Reasons for each thing:
1. Cost increase: lich gains higher hp and pierce armor, researchable skill shadow trickery and overall becomes one of the toughest casters to kill.
2. Most his spells are still saved but replaced hit and pain with shadow trickery and added Mind corruption. 6 spells in total. Hell of pain by sacrifice is one of the most powerful single target damaging spells and i want to keep that.
3. No "lich king" and other lich upgrades. "Lich king" name is trademarked by Blizzard.

StormSaint373 wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:14 pm
StormSaint's Concept

Cost: 5
Hp: 24
Att: 6
Range: 1
Vision: 8
Armor/Pierce: 0/3
Speed: 2
Action/turn: 3
Spell Resistance: 100%

Spells:
Animate Dead: range 10
Summon Skeletal Dragon
Hell of pain by Sacrifice
Rotten: range 5
Shadow Trickery (if implemented)
Dominate: 100% convert, cooldown 2

NOTE: even with 100% spell Resistance, they are still affected by AOE Fireball, thunderstorm, dragon's breath, etc.
Your concept is too op for 5 turn cost caster unit.
1. Too high hp for 5 turn caster. Max hp is 15. Or increase cost to 6.
2. Even more range increase for raise dead on lich doesn't need.
3. Dominate with 100% convert is op. It will ignore any spell resist if it is not 100% so NO.
4. What is "rotten"?
5. Spell resist 100% also op for him. He is caster and doesn't need high spell resist. Also it is even more high for 5 turn caster.

In total if you want to keep that concept than increase cost to 7 or even 8 turns.
Specifically for not so genious persons
makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 am
IT IS ALWAYS EASIER TO CORRECT EXISTING THINGS THAN TO MAKE SOMETHING NEW FROM SCRAP. © by Makazuwr32™.

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StormSaint373
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Location: USA, East Ohio

Re: Lich redesign

Post by StormSaint373 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:01 pm

makazuwr32 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:35 am
Typhoon wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:55 pm
Makazuwr32's Concept
Cost - 6 turns
Hp - 14
Attack - 3
Range - 1
Armor - 0/3
Speed - 2
Sight - 8
Spell resist - 40%
Abilities:
-Convert
-Hell of pain by sacrifice
-Raise dead
-Summon skeleton dragon
-Shadow trickery
-Mind corruption - unit becomes neutral hostile, gains 200% spell resist, +1 action. 30% chance, cooldown - 4 turns.
Reasons for each thing:
1. Cost increase: lich gains higher hp and pierce armor, researchable skill shadow trickery and overall becomes one of the toughest casters to kill.
2. Most his spells are still saved but replaced hit and pain with shadow trickery and added Mind corruption. 6 spells in total. Hell of pain by sacrifice is one of the most powerful single target damaging spells and i want to keep that.
3. No "lich king" and other lich upgrades. "Lich king" name is trademarked by Blizzard.

StormSaint373 wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:14 pm
StormSaint's Concept

Cost: 5
Hp: 24
Att: 6
Range: 1
Vision: 8
Armor/Pierce: 0/3
Speed: 2
Action/turn: 3
Spell Resistance: 100%

Spells:
Animate Dead: range 10
Summon Skeletal Dragon
Hell of pain by Sacrifice
Rotten: range 5
Shadow Trickery (if implemented)
Dominate: 100% convert, cooldown 2

NOTE: even with 100% spell Resistance, they are still affected by AOE Fireball, thunderstorm, dragon's breath, etc.
Your concept is too op for 5 turn cost caster unit.
1. Too high hp for 5 turn caster. Max hp is 15. Or increase cost to 6.
2. Even more range increase for raise dead on lich doesn't need.
3. Dominate with 100% convert is op. It will ignore any spell resist if it is not 100% so NO.
4. What is "rotten"?
5. Spell resist 100% also op for him. He is caster and doesn't need high spell resist. Also it is even more high for 5 turn caster.

In total if you want to keep that concept than increase cost to 7 or even 8 turns.
1, 3. Edited
2, 5. The Lich is supposed to be among the most powerful of spellcasters due to their eons of study and mastery of magic. Liches are frail, they need some kind of resilience.
4. Troll Shamans have it, 10 points of damage to a target.
Beware the calm before the Tempest. . .

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makazuwr32
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Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Lich redesign

Post by makazuwr32 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:09 pm

I'll prefer my variant over Stormsaint's.
Reasons:
1. Similar to current lich but with stats increase. Won't affect MUCH any campains and maps.
2. Not so big cost increase. Undeads still need other units for training early. But 8 turn cost is too much.
3. 3 actions/turn for caster is too much. For lich with summon dragon even more. Too op stats.
Specifically for not so genious persons
makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 am
IT IS ALWAYS EASIER TO CORRECT EXISTING THINGS THAN TO MAKE SOMETHING NEW FROM SCRAP. © by Makazuwr32™.

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StormSaint373
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Location: USA, East Ohio

Re: Lich redesign

Post by StormSaint373 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:13 pm

I understand, but lose the mind corruption 4 something else. Liches need minions not people or monsters that will turn on him.
Beware the calm before the Tempest. . .

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makazuwr32
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Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Lich redesign

Post by makazuwr32 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:24 pm

Hm. I will think about.

Maybe something chilling.....
Specifically for not so genious persons
makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 am
IT IS ALWAYS EASIER TO CORRECT EXISTING THINGS THAN TO MAKE SOMETHING NEW FROM SCRAP. © by Makazuwr32™.

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makazuwr32
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Re: Lich redesign

Post by makazuwr32 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:31 pm

What do you think about this:
Chilling touch:
Like enchant burning but can be applied only to your/allied melee units (not to caster itself or to archers). Applies to enchanted unit "Chilling weapon" passive on-hit effect for 2 turns - reduces speed by -1 and defence by -1/-1, non-stackable. 1 turn cooldown. Casting range - 5.
Specifically for not so genious persons
makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 am
IT IS ALWAYS EASIER TO CORRECT EXISTING THINGS THAN TO MAKE SOMETHING NEW FROM SCRAP. © by Makazuwr32™.

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LordOfAles
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Location: Montenegro

Re: Lich redesign

Post by LordOfAles » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:06 pm

What about chillwave? Inflicts damage and slowness.
Fear not death, for it is a path we all must take. May the Emperor guide you to the right way.

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StormSaint373
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Location: USA, East Ohio

Re: Lich redesign

Post by StormSaint373 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:08 pm

Twoulld be best to Leave cold to Cyromancer.

Focus on necromany for undead.
Beware the calm before the Tempest. . .

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LordOfAles
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Re: Lich redesign

Post by LordOfAles » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:01 pm

Liches were never weak in fantasy. Quite the opposite, they were one of most fearful undead to exit. The current lich is simply...how to say... Completely fragile and barely useful. My concept is to make it like a battlemage, something liches usually are. I really hate this Warcraft oriented lich.
Cost: 7
Attack: 13
Hp: 42
Speed: 3
Sight: 6
Armor: 0/5
Spell resistance: 100%
Action/Turn: 1
Bonuses: No bonuses
Builders: Crypt (No TC anymore)
Abilities:
Animate Dead (Current range)
Hell Of Pain By Sacrifice
Pain And Hit
Raise Skeletal Dragon (3 corpses)
Active Effects:
Lifesteal
Last edited by LordOfAles on Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Fear not death, for it is a path we all must take. May the Emperor guide you to the right way.

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Typhoon
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Re: Lich redesign

Post by Typhoon » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:08 pm

LordOfAles wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:01 pm
Liches were never weak in fantasy. Quite the opposite, they were one of most fearful undead to exit. The current lich is simply...how to say... Completely fragile and barely useful. my concept is to make it like a battlemage, something liches usually are. I really hate this Warcraft oriented lich.
Cost: 7
Attack: 13
Hp: 42
Armor: 0/5
Spell resistance: 100%
Action/Turn: 1
Bonuses: No bonuses
Builders: Crypt (No TC anymore)
Abilities:
Animate Dead (Current range)
Hell Of Pain By Sacrifice
Pain And Hit
Raise Skeletal Dragon (3 corpses)
Active Effects:
Lifesteal
Definetely this is what I wanna see
Independent powerful fearful infamous magician
and not reanimator made of paper and sticks I understand other casters may not be that powerful. But guys
Its Lich!
Peace was never an option

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StormSaint373
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Location: USA, East Ohio

Re: Lich redesign

Post by StormSaint373 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:20 pm

Agreed. They shouldn't be so down played.
Beware the calm before the Tempest. . .

Midonik
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Location: Poland

Re: Lich redesign

Post by Midonik » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:23 pm

Ehhh.... You are going to replace the current lich with that? ALL the maps that uses liches, or just undeads, will be broken as heck.
Support new AoS variant, Age of Galaxy,its sci-fi themed: http://www.androidutils.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=135
All help will be welcome.

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makazuwr32
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Re: Lich redesign

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:27 pm

Current lich needs a smaller update.
What do you suggest must be new unit.
Specifically for not so genious persons
makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 am
IT IS ALWAYS EASIER TO CORRECT EXISTING THINGS THAN TO MAKE SOMETHING NEW FROM SCRAP. © by Makazuwr32™.

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makazuwr32
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Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Lich redesign

Post by makazuwr32 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:15 pm

makazuwr32 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:35 am
Typhoon wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:55 pm
Makazuwr32's Concept
Cost - 6 turns
Hp - 14
Attack - 3
Range - 1
Armor - 0/4
Speed - 2
Sight - 8
Spell resist - 40%
Abilities:
-Convert
-Hell of pain by sacrifice
-Raise dead
-Summon skeleton dragon
-Shadow trickery
-Rotten (spell of troll shaman)
Increased a bit p.armor, changed mind corruption spell to rotten.
Specifically for not so genious persons
makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 am
IT IS ALWAYS EASIER TO CORRECT EXISTING THINGS THAN TO MAKE SOMETHING NEW FROM SCRAP. © by Makazuwr32™.

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Savra
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Re: Lich redesign

Post by Savra » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:20 pm

Hm, you know pain and hit actually sounds more like a orc style move anyway. Since they can heal themselves maybe we could just switch rotten for orcs out with pain and hit while undead get rotten?
Remember to check the unit ready list for AOF to see for any changes.
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=6289

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makazuwr32
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Re: Lich redesign

Post by makazuwr32 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:20 pm

I don't care for now about pain and hit spell. especially because alex still wanted to revamp spells for orc and troll shamans.
Specifically for not so genious persons
makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 am
IT IS ALWAYS EASIER TO CORRECT EXISTING THINGS THAN TO MAKE SOMETHING NEW FROM SCRAP. © by Makazuwr32™.

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