M24 Chaffee IMPLEMENTED

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Alpha
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M24 Chaffee IMPLEMENTED

Post by Alpha » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:31 pm

A Tank used by the US that did saw combat in Normandy and so on.
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Re: M24 Chaffee

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:53 pm

Here it is.
M24A1 Chaffee .png
M24A1 Chaffee .png (1.99 KiB) Viewed 377 times
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Re: M24 Chaffee

Post by LordOfAles » Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:42 am

Awesome! Now we need stats.
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Re: M24 Chaffee

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:23 am

you mean putting in XLS :)
(never forget we dont make stats manually but we have xls to calculate is for us automatically)

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Re: M24 Chaffee

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:33 pm

ok, it is in xls
i thought we could make these (and maybe other tanks evolution too) to be dependant to invented "ERA"

what i mean:
- we remove the m5 stuart upgrade tech - that upgrades m3 to m5
- we set that inventing mid_age makes automatically m3 stuarts turn to m5 stuarts
- we set that inventing end_age makes automatically m5 stuarts turn to m24 Chaffe

what do u think?

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Re: M24 Chaffee

Post by Midonik » Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:01 pm

Maybe it's doubtable realistically wise, but given noone needs tons of very similar tanks it's a better solution I think (not that units suddenly getting better equippment and training out of nowhere like in AoS/AoF were realistic anyway).
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Re: M24 Chaffee

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:32 pm

or we can do the old way: a tech for stuart m5 (exists already) and another tech for chaffe (would be new)

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Re: M24 Chaffee

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:18 pm

or we can make a total different unit out of it.

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Re: M24 Chaffee

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:18 pm

Midonik wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:01 pm
Maybe it's doubtable realistically wise, but given noone needs tons of very similar tanks it's a better solution I think (not that units suddenly getting better equippment and training out of nowhere like in AoS/AoF were realistic anyway).
Agreed, it require some time to think, but that is interesting idea, that can speed up in-game progress nicelly :lol: , but i have some thoughts about it that i want to share. Like, i believe we can make a bit of both... Based on period and the lineage of tanks.

Firstly, agreed that M3 and M5 should be separated, M5

For example, about those units, they are tanks performing the same role indeed (as light tanks)... But like, in reality, even with the possibility of an advanced unit, all units aren't like totally removed from the field, they change older units gradually over the time, so... As technology is better and industrial power is higher with the time.
Would be nice to make the older versions cheaper in some cases.

Like if a light tank lineage has cost 3, then.

M1 Combat tank - have cost 3
M2 light tank - have cost 4
M3 Stuart - have cost 5 <- starting here on pre ww2.
M5 Stuart - have cost 6
M24 Chaffee - have cost 7
M41 walker bulldog - have cost 8
M41/T49 - have cost 9
M551 Sheridan - have cost 10

Each "era/period" upgrade will make the next generation vehicle gets the cost of the current version. And the outdated version became cheaper... So: M3, M5 and M24 will have the same cost of 3, on their service period.

M3 have cost 2
M5 have cost 3 <- mid ww2 period.
M24 have cost 4

M3 have cost 1
M5 have cost 2
M24 have cost 3 <- ending ww2 era.
Breaking the barrier of "work for the job" to "put the job to work for you" is a thing that i want to reach someday aswell... Probably i should make some notes about it...
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Re: M24 Chaffee

Post by Midonik » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:27 pm

As always an extremely complex solution I have mixed feelings about.
I'm not sure if tech can effect the unit's stats in negative way.
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Re: M24 Chaffee

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:02 pm

interesting idea but i would rather not make the game more complex this way.

i suggest making the M3->M5 transition (as in docs i see the M5 was the upgraded version of the tank -meaning they have not produced M3 anymore - am i right?)
also if i ready correctry the M24 was also built instead of the old M5

so i think to reduce the very many tank types in game we need to make upgraded versions that exchanges earlier versions.

this not mean we do it always only cases where there are written things about "replacement" type of connection (when old ones got outdated at a point)

so i think i thin we have 2 choses:
a) make normal tech for upgrading (as we did on M3->M5) so we will have M5->M24
b) or we will have a totally separate M24 (if we are not sure it is a replacing model of M5)

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Re: M24 Chaffee

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:16 pm

Midonik wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:27 pm
As always an extremely complex solution I have mixed feelings about.
I'm not sure if tech can effect the unit's stats in negative way.
Well, reducing the cost is actually a positive thing, but i believe that isn't what you mean about negative right?
Btw. It isn't complex, it is just me that is bad at explanations. :lol:
Stratego (dev) wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:02 pm
interesting idea but i would rather not make the game more complex this way.

i suggest making the M3->M5 transition (as in docs i see the M5 was the upgraded version of the tank -meaning they have not produced M3 anymore - am i right?)
also if i ready correctry the M24 was also built instead of the old M5

so i think to reduce the very many tank types in game we need to make upgraded versions that exchanges earlier versions.

this not mean we do it always only cases where there are written things about "replacement" type of connection (when old ones got outdated at a point)

so i think i thin we have 2 choses:
a) make normal tech for upgrading (as we did on M3->M5) so we will have M5->M24
b) or we will have a totally separate M24 (if we are not sure it is a replacing model of M5)
Well, it won't make the game more complex, but in fact more realistic, and smooth to play... Btw it is actually both A and B, and here's why;

(A) Because it is about light tank lineage. In order to produce the next generation vehicle, you must have its "parents"... Like you can't just produce an M41 Bulldog from M2 light tank and expect it be an M41 without the combat expecience earned with the previous generation...
(B) Because these tanks had many variants running at same time as the unit receive upgrades... Before and sometimes even after the next generation vehicle arrived. Keeping the unit alive even after its production had ceased. One perfect example is the M4 Sherman, even after its production had been shut in order to make pershings and later the pattons, it still had many other variants produced as the French M4A1 "Revaloirisé" and the Israeli M50/M51 "Super Shermans" on post-war.

M3, M5 and M24 are derivates of the same lineage of light tanks, but each of them had upgraded versions when they were on their service period, like M3A1 and M3A2, or M5A1, M5A2 and M5A3, or M24A1, M24A1B and so on...

I'm saying that instead of having to put higher cost to produce newer advanced units of every new generation, these newer tanks would just substitute the previous ones in their role and sharing the lineage production cost, in other words "having the same cost of the outdated unit". While these older units would became cheaper to produce and upgrade, until their eventual retirement.

Clear enough?
Breaking the barrier of "work for the job" to "put the job to work for you" is a thing that i want to reach someday aswell... Probably i should make some notes about it...
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Re: M24 Chaffee

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:08 am

Ultimately I'd prefer a nice considerate string of detailed upgrades to take the place of simply "early, mid, and late" tech upgrades. It will just upgrade too much at once for my taste, but I understand that it's simplicity must be utilized to make a well rounded and easygoing multiplayer match.

In my speculation, both detailed tech trees and age upgrades should be allowed to coexist with one another, it'd make for more interesting gameplay if both were used to vividly depict weapon advancements around the world and along the time periods of WW2 or pre-war. Each current nation (and some upcoming) have made interesting modifications to their tanks, like making room for a bigger gun, adding on more material to make it tough, or simply attaching a flamethrower to clear infantry or bunkers with more ease. It'd be fantastic if we could have these modifications as the leaves of each branch on the tree.
I'm in favor of making obsolete vehicles stick around in the midst of ongoing battle after moving up a branch as long as they don't take up space on the production line, because if they aren't being built anymore then there shouldn't be an option to build the original again. The only versions of the earlier tanks that should stick around are the ones that operate on different roles, such as self propelled artillery, tank destroyers, and flamethrowers until a better modification of an advanced tank takes it's role.
Furthermore to isolate both as to speed up advancements or to climb the tech tree on the host's demand we can make it a game option to advance through ages instead of going through the delicate process of upgunning your military forces.

Is that clear enough, or should I explain further?
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Re: M24 Chaffee

Post by Stratego (dev) » Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:21 am

wo u say if (a) a specific tech (eg. m5 stuart tech) invented OR (b) an ERA invented than we
- shoould not upgrade all existing M3 units to M5
- but simply allowing to build M5 only on same turncost as M3 were (so simply removing M3 from buildlists and adding M5)


do i understand correctly?

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Re: M24 Chaffee

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:38 am

Yeah that sounds accurate, but I'm also saying that techs that let you build tanks with different roles like the M8 Scott from the M5 Stuart or M3A3 Satan from M3 Stuart should still be producable (off of remaining models of earlier tank) after the player advances to the next lineage of tank models in the same price area.
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Re: M24 Chaffee

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:45 pm

Puss_in_Boots wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:38 am
Yeah that sounds accurate, but I'm also saying that techs that let you build tanks with different roles like the M8 Scott from the M5 Stuart or M3A3 Satan from M3 Stuart should still be producable (off of remaining models of earlier tank) after the player advances to the next lineage of tank models in the same price area.
I make your words mine, totally agreed.
Breaking the barrier of "work for the job" to "put the job to work for you" is a thing that i want to reach someday aswell... Probably i should make some notes about it...
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Re: M24 Chaffee

Post by Stratego (dev) » Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:05 pm

than i suggest "no upgrading at all"

i mean:

- u can build M3 by default.
- u can build M5 only in mid age, nothing related to M3, M3 still buildable (if u have the upgrade from upgrades)
- u can build flamethrover M3 too and all other alternatives anytime (if u have the upgrade from upgrades and proper era)
- in end era you can build M24 but all other are still in and available M3 and M5 and their variants
(maybe we can make different techs like: "flamthrower tanks technology", will enable flame tanks on several tank types - it could be stealable tech also - that is a good point also)


i only suggest a checkbox on buildlist as "show all era types" if turned on than all is visible (up to invented era), if turned off only current era (earlier not) is visible.

because here would be too many units if there is no filtering option.

(off topic but i also thought of a filtering by "category" or something - ifg i want AT tank than i will filter to only those and so on)

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Re: M24 Chaffee

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:24 am

any ideas here?

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Re: M24 Chaffee

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:07 am

Stratego (dev) wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:24 am
any ideas here?
it is in as a standalone unit currently.
thanks!

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