Discussing unit and other concepts

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Tankhead
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Discussing unit and other concepts

Post by Tankhead » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:16 am

What is it dwarven defender?
What's its armor made of?
Its not mithril so what armor is it?
Is it better than mithril units that are suppose to be the elites?
If so is this an elite elite troop?

So many questions about this unknown unit.
unit_dwarf_dwarven_defender.png
unit_dwarf_dwarven_defender.png (2.26 KiB) Viewed 144 times
Last edited by Tankhead on Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Savra
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Re: Dwarven Defender

Post by Savra » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:04 am

Adementanium.
Question answered.

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Tankhead
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Re: Dwarven Defender

Post by Tankhead » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:17 am

Savra wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:04 am
Adementanium.
Question answered.
Please no jokes
The color of that material is jet black alloy
And none of the other questions haven't gotten answered

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Savra
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Re: Dwarven Defender

Post by Savra » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:19 am

It says their clad in the finest mithiril so maybe it's a rare form of mithiril or a more refined one. Like iron and steel.

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Savra
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Re: Dwarven Defender

Post by Savra » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:22 am

Or maybe the dwarven metal from skyrim.

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Tankhead
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Re: Dwarven Defender

Post by Tankhead » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:56 am

Hmmmm interesting

I was trying to figure out is it possible to make these a unit and not just a map editor one
Tank_head_cannon_shield-3.gif
Tank_head_cannon_shield-3.gif (2.57 KiB) Viewed 132 times
But before I can change anything I needed to know what the Original dwarven defender is

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Tankhead
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Re: Dwarven Defender

Post by Tankhead » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:46 am

Came up with an idea

What if dwarven defender wasn't affected by upgrades but only had an troop upgrade ( only 1 )
Maka told me that with blacksmith upgrades dwarven defender will be pretty powerful armor wise SO what if the image above was its troop upgrade

( animations will have to go )

The troop upgrade will give more armor and maybe more Hp but not as much as if black smith would have given

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Savra
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Re: Dwarven Defender

Post by Savra » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:49 am

Hmm, well I'm not familiar on dwarf upgrades since I only have 1 so maybe.

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makazuwr32
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Re: Dwarven Defender

Post by makazuwr32 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:54 am

No.
1. Why defender must not be affected by blacksmith?
2. That image doesn't look dwarfish. It looks more like alien or some construct.
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Tankhead
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Re: Dwarven Defender

Post by Tankhead » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:10 am

1. With blacksmith upgrades in all I fear this unit will be too powerful

2. Well without the flame animations its just a heavily armored dwarf

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makazuwr32
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Re: Dwarven Defender

Post by makazuwr32 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:13 am

1. No it won't still. It is still infantry and is vurable to cavalry. Also blacksmith upgrades will add +4/+4 to armors. 12/10 armor is not so much to become completely invurable to any damage.
2. Without flame animations it looks like some armor with weird glow. Not as dwarf still.
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Savra
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Re: Dwarven Defender

Post by Savra » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:17 am

With the addition of armour ignoring units and the such armours not going to be an issue for long. An Olog hai has a lot of armour and health but can easily (and I mean easily cause I've done it a lot) be killed off by fire. They basically are meant to threaten players and make them focus fire on that 1 unit over the other units that could do more damage, in other words noob slayer units.

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Tankhead
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Re: Dwarven Defender

Post by Tankhead » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:20 am

Geez 12/10 😬 I was thinking of giving him a separate troop upgrade that gives
+2/+2 armor
+10 hp
+5 attack

And weird glow without the animation?
Wym, the armor is made of adamantium with him holding a golden large Axe

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Tankhead
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Re: Dwarven Defender

Post by Tankhead » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:21 am

What would be the focus on taking out a dwarven defender?

And maka what is the dwarven defender exactly
( hasn't been explained yet )

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Re: Dwarven Defender

Post by makazuwr32 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:26 am

Cavalry, offensive magic, any hard hitters (for example olog hais).
Master wolf rider has 50% bonus to him: 20 + 20*50% - 12 = 18 damage. It is pretty large amount i must say and remeber than this rider can get +7 to his base damage via orc spells and 2nd action -> 27 + 27*50% - 12 = 40-12 = 28 damage x2.

Dwarven defender is like warmage of humans - special forces unit that is armored with best armor and finest weapon.
Armor is made from mithril covered with gold for better enchantability and protective runes for higher armor.
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Tankhead
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Re: Dwarven Defender

Post by Tankhead » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:32 am

Hmmm intresting
Can they're be more?
Like a special forces mini faction that would go with it?

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Re: Dwarven Defender

Post by makazuwr32 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:38 am

Defenders no.
I like them as they are now. Maybe add a little buff to them - power range 1.
They don't need any expansion (or otherwise we need to expand warmages, centaurs, ents, ettins, hamletbacks into whole army of imperial-like size).

I must say that IF unit is designed and programmed properly than it is easy to counter it. If to know how.

Imperial knight is ridicilously hard to kill without pikes. But is possible. And with pike unit it is much easier.
Olog hai is hard to kill without proper fire but they also vurable to cavalry and this is another way of killing it.

As for purpose of these units - their main roles are:
1. Holding chokepoints (tc for example or tight spot);
2. Dealing many damage to their enemies (defender is exeptional to fight with giants).
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Tankhead
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Re: Dwarven Defender

Post by Tankhead » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:43 am

Not defenders in general but like different types of
Special forces units
makazuwr32 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:26 am
Dwarven defender is like warmage of humans - special forces unit that is armored with best armor and finest weapon.
Armor is made from mithril covered with gold for better enchantability and protective runes for higher armor.
What if their was more?

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makazuwr32
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Re: Dwarven Defender

Post by makazuwr32 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:48 am

Well as special forces i think to these units for dwarves we can add their battle zeppelin and dwarven monk.
For humans - blue dragons, drake knights and warmages.
For elves their bladesinger, ent warrior (now) and centaur are those.
For undeads i think their death knight and second current unit from summoning circle are those.
For orcs idk.

But what do i mean by "special forces" type:
Unit with specific abilities/stats which can be more powerful than elite units of race and holds specific position (like defender and ent warrior are nearly perfect to hold off choke points while drake knight is only currently flying cavalry with fireball).
In short - "unit with pretty specific purpose".
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Savra
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Re: Dwarven Defender

Post by Savra » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:40 pm

Actually I think dwarven defender has bonus to giants. But olog hai also counts as a giant and being a heavy armoured unit means he'll have 4 weaknesses soon with the introduction of anti armour units.

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Re: Dwarven Defender

Post by makazuwr32 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:21 pm

Ofc defender has bonus to giants.
I suggested it.

As for anti armor i don't like this idea.
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Tankhead
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Re: Discussing unit and other concepts

Post by Tankhead » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:35 pm

I changed title name to talk on that

Im 50/50 with this because magic already acts like a anti armor thing.
Now if magic armor came into play that would make more sense to have anti armor units

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Savra
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Re: Dwarven Defender

Post by Savra » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:02 pm

makazuwr32 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:21 pm
Ofc defender has bonus to giants.
I suggested it.

As for anti armor i don't like this idea.
No I'm saying we're going to get anti armour units e.g. Elven sentry remember?

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Re: Discussing unit and other concepts

Post by Tankhead » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:05 am

So I look up differences and similarities with dwarfs and gnomes

Gnomes live mostly underground while dwarfs live on top if the surface of mountains, forest and underground

Dwarfs and gnomes BOTH are known for building but gnomes are farther advance and smarter.

Dwarfs are also known for armor while gnomes are not
MY SUGGESTION

What century of technology is dwarfs in and what century technology is gnomes in

Remember gnomes are farther advance

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Re: Discussing unit and other concepts

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:14 am

Elven sentry will have normal 50% bonus to infatries. Including armored ones.

For now no magic armor. But reason why i am thinking to lower spell resistance is because spell relying races (undeads, humans) have extremly hard time dealing with spell immune units. Also this will increase value of human mages due to their ability to disarmor (as for this exact spell i think it must ignore spell resist at all but instead it must have its own success chance).
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Savra
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Re: Discussing unit and other concepts

Post by Savra » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:20 am

(The mages are probably saying "thank you" right now.)

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Tankhead
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Re: Discussing unit and other concepts

Post by Tankhead » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:51 am

What time aura for tech was dwarfs and gnomes

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makazuwr32
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Re: Discussing unit and other concepts

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:05 am

Uhm what?
Time aura?
Did i miss something?
I think there was no suggestions for any auras.
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Tankhead
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Re: Discussing unit and other concepts

Post by Tankhead » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:21 am

makazuwr32 wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:05 am
Uhm what?
Time aura?
Did i miss something?
I think there was no suggestions for any auras.
Not literal time auras but the time gnomes and dwarfs gad they're tech

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Re: Discussing unit and other concepts

Post by Hyacintho » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:14 pm

Dwarves= 1200's to 1460's in era technology. (Cannons and such.)

Gnomes= 1700's to 1860's in era technology. (Industrial Revolution.)

This is just my uneducated guess. What do you think?
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