Samurai vs hatamoto - IMPLEMENTED
- Sunrise Samurai
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Samurai vs hatamoto - IMPLEMENTED
This probably should be in bugs, but I think it might be the subject of some balance discussion.
Samurai are effected by blacksmith techs
Hatamoto isn't.
They really need to be on the same page, since samurai is actually more powerful than hatamoto if all blacksmith techs are researched. This means upgrading them actually weakens them.
The balance question is this: should we remove the upgrades from samurai, or give them to hatamoto?
My vote is to give the upgrades, though I'm one of the people who thinks blacksmith techs should impact everything.
Samurai are effected by blacksmith techs
Hatamoto isn't.
They really need to be on the same page, since samurai is actually more powerful than hatamoto if all blacksmith techs are researched. This means upgrading them actually weakens them.
The balance question is this: should we remove the upgrades from samurai, or give them to hatamoto?
My vote is to give the upgrades, though I'm one of the people who thinks blacksmith techs should impact everything.
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- DoomCarrot
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
Lol, yes, I noticed this too. On the wiki page for them, I said something along the lines of "The Hatamoto's armour and weapons are so well crafted that it is beyond a blacksmith's ability to improve them"
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- Sunrise Samurai
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
Actually, maybe we should start making blacksmith techs for individual nation's. For example, carbon steel levels 1 and 2 for Japanese melee. Interlocking shields as Roman armor upgrades, etc.
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
I heard somewhere that hatamoto was already good enough, so they don't need upgrades like that. (Honestly they will be scary with upgrades)
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- LordOfAles
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
Nope, actually they wouldnt. That would just encourage players researching sword mastery faster than archery!
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- Sunrise Samurai
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
True that. It might encourage working on melee instead of ranged. Ive been told adding national techs just makes too many techs, so I'd say to give them the blacksmith techs.
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
Well, maybe since the cost increased they didn't get used as much now. When hatamoto first release i am staying with him because of the values (strong double attacks? why not).
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- DoomCarrot
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
hatamoto is still pretty good, with or without upgrades.
Infantry with 4 move? That essentially means you will ALWAYS get first strike against other melee units, which is pretty huge. Also, they do a better job at keeping up with centurions, so they are a nice bonding strategy.
Infantry with 4 move? That essentially means you will ALWAYS get first strike against other melee units, which is pretty huge. Also, they do a better job at keeping up with centurions, so they are a nice bonding strategy.
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- Sunrise Samurai
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
Be grateful it doesn't benefit from drummer......5 move infantry. Scary
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
I think the solution might be to have the samurai with no upgrades.
We cannot have where it has upgrades and the same unit does not
We cannot have where it has upgrades and the same unit does not
Thanks!
Josh
Josh
- Sunrise Samurai
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
One or the other. I'd even understand if hatamoto got upgrades and samurai didn't lol but it's not good for the lesser form to be strongerCOOLguy wrote:I think the solution might be to have the samurai with no upgrades.
We cannot have where it has upgrades and the same unit does not
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- godOfKings
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
How about hatamoto has 10 atk and 0/0 or 1/1 armour and it can have blacksmith upgrades, after all the main upgrade for samurai is the +1 speed
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
Several choices :
- Let the hatamoto got only the 1st infantry tech
(Samurai still has both tech).
- Let the Samurai got only the 1st tech (Hatamoto
had no tech).
- Let the hatamoto got only the 1st infantry tech
(Samurai still has both tech).
- Let the Samurai got only the 1st tech (Hatamoto
had no tech).
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- DoomCarrot
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
But see that is so confusing imo, especially to new players. Having only one tech benefit them is just as bizarre as the current situation.
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
Well, then what will be the solution?
Edit : it is both armor & power for both choices, besides Hatamoto is just fine with one tech level / none (samurai on other hand might need two level, but maybe it can get one tech level only?).
Edit : it is both armor & power for both choices, besides Hatamoto is just fine with one tech level / none (samurai on other hand might need two level, but maybe it can get one tech level only?).
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- godOfKings
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
How about this, samurai has 8 attack while hatamoto has 9 attack, and they both get black smith upgrades
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me
For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools
For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools
- Sunrise Samurai
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- godOfKings
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
Yes for a 3 turn unit, 16 damage is more than enough for samurai and they have bonus against infantry too
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me
For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools
For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools
- LordOfAles
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
I agree! This balance should be in
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- DoomCarrot
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
I agree hatamoto should just be nerfed and given upgrades.
The day is coming when a single carrot, freshly observed, will set off a revolution.
Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
Please decide what the property changes should be, so we can put them in the game.
Thanks!
Josh
Josh
- DoomCarrot
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
It seems 9 attack for hatamoto?
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- Sunrise Samurai
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
Drop hatamoto to 9 power, but it gets the blacksmith techs in exchange. This seems to be the most balanced way to do it, and rewards development as a game progresses.COOLguy wrote:Please decide what the property changes should be, so we can put them in the game.
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- LordOfAles
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
Agreed
I am, indeed, a big Witch King and Middle Earth fan if you didn't notice.
- godOfKings
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
To summarize more clearly
Samurai atk 8
Hatamoto atk9
Hatamoto armour could b 1/1 but everyone else should agree first on this b4 being implemented ( or should it be 1/0 so that the only things increased r atk, hp and most imprtantly speed?)
Full blacksmith upgrades would then give hatamoto
atk 11,
Armour 3/3 or 3/2 (depending on whichever seems more balanced)
Samurai atk 8
Hatamoto atk9
Hatamoto armour could b 1/1 but everyone else should agree first on this b4 being implemented ( or should it be 1/0 so that the only things increased r atk, hp and most imprtantly speed?)
Full blacksmith upgrades would then give hatamoto
atk 11,
Armour 3/3 or 3/2 (depending on whichever seems more balanced)
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me
For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools
For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools
- godOfKings
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Re: Samurai vs hatamoto
Are the stats implemented yet? Personally I like the second version of armour more ( with less pierce armour )
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me
For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools
For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools