Skirmish Maps for gems (Priority)

[LordOfAles]

Greetings friends and allies, the following post is coming from an old map designer who deeply enjoys the game's main aspect, single player. When I speak, I speak for every Age variant, not just Age of Strategy, and consider this a pretty needed change. And that is, to allow Skirmish games (Yes, the single player mode where you pick your map and map setup) to give gems. This would depend on map size, AI difficulty, and amount of enemy AI vs the player and allied AI (They have to be equal, or there needs to be more of the enemy for gems to be valid), all these factors can be discussed and agreed on, as well as the amount of rewarded gems.

Because, let's face it: The games are getting more units than maps with every update (AoF being the worst offender here as far as my knowledge goes), there are not enough maps (Either possible or impossible with all the balance and gameplay changes that naturally come with the updates) to even acquire a fraction of upgrades, and the main focus of games is not multiplayer, it is single player. Especially taking into consideration multiplayer's current state where you may as well just know people by name and can very easily lose gems rather than win them (No, the login rewards don't really help), invalidating its ability to just have some casual fun and make gems while doing it.I know all those tens of thousands of 5-star ratings didn't rate the games for their multiplayer, and being bad at it is literally a doom sentence if you want to earn gems without trying to pass some ridiculously hard/impossible campaign maps.

Having Skirmish reward gems would massively improve the game's economy on top of being; keyword, BREAK-PROOF. No amount of balancing, gameplay, AI nor unit changes would be able to break this way of earning gems, which most certainly isn't the case with scenarios and campaigns, with there being far too much effort to edit every single broken map and its triggers to be passable with every major update change. So please, support and implement this change, it would take some effort, but drastically improve the state of the games. There is way more replayability with this way of earning gems than it is the single player ways we have now.

[Lucifer]

Having Skirmish reward gems would massively improve the game's economy on top of being; keyword, BREAK-PROOF. No amount of balancing, gameplay, AI nor unit changes would be able to break this way of earning gems.

I disagree here. Maybe when we have better AI this will be true, but right now skirmish games are still prone to AI being predictable and easy to defeat.

[DreJaDe]

I feel like this needs some limitation on the map size.

If I remember correctly... In AOF, Orcs in "many" starting units, first turn can easily dominate a small map with any race.

[makazuwr32]

Maybe if it will give you 1 gem from skirmish per 5-15k points earned in match you won it might be fine for aof.

Or maybe another daily gift for skirmish games but that grants only 1 gem per day without any variations.

[Lucifer]

To be clear, I support this idea. However only after we fix the AI to make skirmish maps challenging in all situations. Otherwise it just becomes something to grind.

[LordOfAles]

I think you're missing the point here. It's not supposed to be super challenging or anything alike it, it's supposed to be a way of flat out grinding gems. If you're worried that it's too easy, well, that is probably another issue (Or a blessing, if you will it) related to being extremely skilled at the game (Taking into the fact at least 2 of the above are outright developing AoF). People were never supposed to play multiplayer as the main way to earn gems to begin with, the games are popular because of their single player charm. There is absolutely no need to so drastically restrict amount of gems gained from Skirmish, as there is no point. At all. Skilled players will be able to haul gems in multiplayer, while the lower-skilled ones can still grind out gems in single player and without any risk of losing what little gems they have.

[Lucifer]

I'm all for grinding, but it should at least be Fun. Currently its not, in AOF at least. Its either too hard for new players, or too easy for old players.
Maybe there can be a "Challenge" mode in Skirmish games which gives more advantages to the AI and makes the match grant gems on a win.

[Sunrise Samurai]

Personally, I am all for this in some form or another. We need a way to grind for gems, and it should be able to give more than just 1-2 per day.

[LordOfAles]

Veteran players can simply bump up the amount of enemy AI in return of earning a higher amount of gems, it'd be a way to speed things up if you're well-versed into the game. Veteran players can grind much more efficiently while the casual players can earn lesser gems, but also go at their own pace. It can even incentivize players to get better to be able to tackle on the higher amount of foes.

[Sunrise Samurai]

Maybe there can be a "Challenge" mode in Skirmish games which gives more advantages to the AI and makes the match grant gems on a win.

Sadly, hard ai is already too much for new players who need the gems most. This should probably scale with settings, but the lowest level players with absolutely nothing unlocked should be able to earn at least 1 gem from a match against hard ai under "no upgrades" setting

[Sombrar +1]

I also really like the idea and would like it to be added to the game because, as already mentioned, most players who play the AO variants play offline, as they generally are people who just want to spend time having fun playing simple strategy games without too much commitment like wanting to play multiplayer.

However, I also agree that the current AI is not that good at difficulty to make it easier for the player to divide or scale difficulty levels so that if the player plays on a difficulty he you can win 1 or 2 gems without having to resort to online matches to win units and gems in daily gifts, as you normally see on online maps some people placing in the name of the map which is to play for daily gift only.

However, even if the AI ​​is currently not very challenging, the challenge system can still be implemented today for skirmish matches for players to earn gems, for example, which such as using that player level that the person increases as they win in the games they play, so every 4-5 levels that the player he has it add a new difficulty in skirmish matches to win gems such as:

• Player Level 4~5 - The player only needs to play on the AI ​​hard difficulty to earn gems in the skirmish match.

• Player level 8~10 - In addition to having to play on the difficult AI difficulty, the player has to play in the fog match.

• Player level 12~15 - the player can now not play on "Huge" maps precisely because huge maps allow the player to strategize for much longer and prepare without competing for TC strong.

Furthermore, this could also open up an additional option for the AI ​​as when selecting the "Challenges" option a list of options will appear like: The AI ​​will start with two additional units at the start of departure;The AI ​​starts with 1 additional TC; Player can only have 1 TC and captured TCs turn into money carts.

[DreJaDe]

Im ok with the idea of grinding Skirmish to earn gems.
But Im totally on with the idea

Another downside I see though is redundancy?
I guess limiting it to 1s a day will solve that BUUUTTT... That's kinda seems pointless!

I mean, even RPGs have grinding system. I know this is different but it seems fine either way to not be once a day.

[LordOfAles]

Absolutely, there's no reason whatsoever to restrict this to once per day. If people who love the game would love to grind out some gems, just let them. No reason to make getting rewards in this game a chore via a system of daily limits/rewards, that's not a good practice.

[Menselot]

This is a very sound and well thought out idea. The game currently needs more ways for the average player to earn more gems without making any expenditure feel like a very hard, all in, investment.

Speaking from personal experience and as a veteran of the game, spending gems, especially when you first start out feels VERY daunting. Often you want or need a particular unit and you end up with something you dont want. Other times you want to play another race but you have too little gems to invest in them, making you solely focus on playing a single or maybe two races, THUS not experiencing the whole game. Unlocking the entire tree for a race almost NEVER happens and takes TOO much grind. And even if it does, one or two updates later you will have to grind again for those shiny, new units that just arrived
(I had to roll a 2nd account because i lost my 1st one, so all this is from recent experience)

Given the current state of the game, with the arrival of new units you have to unlock and with maps breaking, becoming impossible to beat after balance changes... Gems are not only harder to ger but even more needed than before!

This easy alternative, will fix that problem, give players a fun, easier and more accessible way to earn gems and let them to experience the entirety of the game much easier without major time investments. Overall it will increase replayability and the fun factor of the game WHICH IS WHAT WE SHOULD ALWAYS LOOK AFTER!!!!


As for how you are going to implement this, i am going to leave it to you guys. With love, your old friend Menselot

[Sunrise Samurai]

Suggested method for determining gem payout:

Highest gem value among opposing teams divided by gem value of players team, rounded down. Matches where multiple players are "human" are invalid.

Player is worth 1 gem
Easy ai is 0.5 gems
Hard ai is 1 gem
Very hard is 1.5 gems
Impossible is 2.5 gems

Yes, very hard and Impossible are only planned so far, but ai profiles are in the works and will be available soon enough.

For this formula, 3x Impossible ai on a team would be worth 7.5 gems. Player (1 gem) plus ai hard (1 gem) and ai easy (0.5 gems) on the players side is 2.5 gems. 7.5/2.5 = 3 gem payout for winning. This means newer players may have to struggle a little in 2v1 against easy ai, but that's not an impossible task by any means even for noobs.

[LordOfAles]

I would honestly double those values. If it has to be a grind, it doesn't have to be a painfully long grind. Let's not act like there aren't literal hundreds of upgrades to buy, it would be much more fair and time-respectful towards the usual player.

[Sunrise Samurai]

Hmm. So more like 1x for easy, 2x for hard, 3x very hard, 4x Impossible?

[LordOfAles]

Seems much better that way, really. No need to be stingy with the gems anymore, it's not 2017 anymore.

[SirPat]

as already mentioned, most players who play the AO variants play offline

Like me the faithful AI enjoyer
"I havent played Mult in a while"
-sp

Suggested method for determining gem payout:

Highest gem value among opposing teams divided by gem value of players team, rounded down. Matches where multiple players are "human" are invalid.

Player is worth 1 gem
Easy ai is 0.5 gems
Hard ai is 1 gem
Very hard is 1.5 gems
Impossible is 2.5 gems

Yes, very hard and Impossible are only planned so far, but ai profiles are in the works and will be available soon enough.

For this formula, 3x Impossible ai on a team would be worth 7.5 gems. Player (1 gem) plus ai hard (1 gem) and ai easy (0.5 gems) on the players side is 2.5 gems. 7.5/2.5 = 3 gem payout for winning. This means newer players may have to struggle a little in 2v1 against easy ai, but that's not an impossible task by any means even for noobs.

I like this, but i could imagine one way to rig this system, having a 1v5 game where all enemies are also human, and since these are offline skirmish, he can just either make those players afk or surrender(idk if offline allows that?) Which would equate to 5gems total of 5 human players divided by 1 human (the player) so 5gems per rigged skirmish, maybe we could use maks idea

Maybe if it will give you 1 gem from skirmish per 5-15k points earned in match you won it might be fine for aof.

Like if there are multiple human players in a team, they should have a reasonable amountof points to represent that this player is actually being played by someone and not doing rigged games

Anyways, this will help all of the offline players to enjoy more from the game

[LordOfAles]

I think having multiple human players in a Skirmish should just invalidate its rewards and give you 0 gems instead. It IS single player, after all.

[Sunrise Samurai]

Yeah, as I mentioned originally multiple slots set to "human" should give 0 gems.

[Badnorth]

I like and support this idea. Getting gems can be hard in campaigns when you've cleaned it of easy and medium maps.

Skirmish can be helpful, but the number of gems should be made that it can't be exploited.

Like,

5 turns below won't give gems
5 turns above will give 1 gem

[Puppeteer12]

I feel like it should be based on map size instead of turns for the anti exploit feature.

Like:
Anything below 20/20 = 0

Maps around 20/20 to 30/30 = 1

Maps 40/40 or above = 2

[SirPat]

Yeah since if we played a larger map, its harder to win in a few turns cause, how? And if you somehow did get to win under a few turns than why wouldnt you get the gems, most likely a skilled player wouldve done that. Aslog as small maps played under a few turns cant earn you gems, than everything else is fine with me.

[Lucifer]

(posting my opinion here from discord server)

Completing any match, gives some amount of gems based on some parameters. Those parameters can be
- more than X turns played
- more than X techs researched
- more than X units trained
- more than X units killed
- level X+ player defeated
- Very hard AI defeated
- Enemy score more than X (ie it was a tough fight)
- Your score more than X
X: any appropriate number, can be discussed

Each gives 0.5 gems, total rounded down. So anywhere from 0 to 4 gems per game, any game. (just as an example rule)

This means both skirmish and multiplayer gives some gems based on difficulty and performance. Independent of anything else. Larger maps, and thus longer matches, naturally gives more gems.
So people can play bet games, FFA games, or skirmish against AI, and always get a few gems based on the game, rather than just the pre determined rewards.