Religious/cultural techs.

[Tominimax]

My idea is to give players new techs that could change the way healers (mostly their conversion ability) work. Mostly to protect units from conversion, but in an interesting way.

A) Monotheism/Polytheism techs - researched in churches and advancement centers. Their effects should cancel each other.
Polytheism would give healers bonus conversion chance, but lowers own unit resistance.
Monotheism would lower conversion chances, and buff resistance.
Players shouldn't be able to research both, or steal these.

B) Philosophy tech - research in churches.
Grants healers the ability to remove low resistance effect from healed allies and converted enemies.

C)Loyalty reworks
The loss of health instead being converted is a weird effect. A more realistic effect of the loyalty tech would be to affect the nearly-converted unit with a "moral dilemma" effect that prevents them from fighting for few (3-4?) turns. This would make loyalty more valuable as it allows players to save these units.

D)Patriotism tech - research in TC and castle
Gives your TCs an aura that gives conversion resist (+50%?) to allies in a radius of 3.

E)Honor tech - research in castles
A tech that disallows enemies to cast conversion on your elite (example: hoplites, templars) units. Most units with 100% resistance.

[Badnorth]

I like (E.) & (C.)

C Yeah conversion is on a whole new level now I think its better to rework loyalty than having your units to die.. And do you mean like Curse in aof ? Not moving or attacking, But its mental health is totally devastated.. I like that

E. Thats a good idea too I think it should effect Religious,officers,Romans & samurai's

[Endru1241]

Just to be on the same level of knowledge, first I have to disclose what I am working on:
- Promote Loyalty ability - buff giving varying +% mental resistance (mainly vs conversion) .
- Dismiss Propaganda ability - instant ability decreasing all Promote Loyalty and resistance decreases from failed conversion attempts by 2 turns.
This I planned to add without any research to fitting units - wise and/or speptics and of course other convincers would have dismiss propaganda.
Promote loyalty would be given to convincers, but with lower power when they are even a little forceful (like teutons). This ability would aslo be usable by leaders, commanders.

My idea is to give players new techs that could change the way healers (mostly their conversion ability) work. Mostly to protect units from conversion, but in an interesting way.

A) Monotheism/Polytheism techs - researched in churches and advancement centers. Their effects should cancel each other.
Polytheism would give healers bonus conversion chance, but lowers own unit resistance.
Monotheism would lower conversion chances, and buff resistance.
Players shouldn't be able to research both, or steal these.

B) Philosophy tech - research in churches.
Grants healers the ability to remove low resistance effect from healed allies and converted enemies.

C)Loyalty reworks
The loss of health instead being converted is a weird effect. A more realistic effect of the loyalty tech would be to affect the nearly-converted unit with a "moral dilemma" effect that prevents them from fighting for few (3-4?) turns. This would make loyalty more valuable as it allows players to save these units.

D)Patriotism tech - research in TC and castle
Gives your TCs an aura that gives conversion resist (+50%?) to allies in a radius of 3.

E)Honor tech - research in castles
A tech that disallows enemies to cast conversion on your elite (example: hoplites, templars) units. Most units with 100% resistance.

So it seems You thought about something very similar. Maybe better.
A) In AoS we don't do "choose one of few". But Monotheism/polytheism or maybe more precise religions are great idea for cultures!
B) Maybe tech should be used to allow Dismiss Propaganda.
C) Idea is good, but there is one thing missing - what about the purpose of conversion?
It was created as a counter for very hard to defeat units - mainly elephants. And when elephants are used by enemy - it's for blocking some spaces.
Using conversion gives two different advantages - it clears the field and gives bonus unit. Loyalty research removes 2nd advantage from enemy and decreases effectiveness of first.
If it would just paralyze unit - it's still blocking passage!
We would have to check if CAN_BE_PASSED_BY_ENEMY and IS_PASSIVE_UNIT specs would work, because they have to be added by said debuff additionally.
D) Great idea - I am gonna add it to the todo list, maybe with a different name.
E) This one I am against. Not only it's hard to implement, but most importantly - it goes against all my historical knowledge and belief.
There were never such things as extremely loyal, inconvertible warriors. Especially among elites. They were the first to change sides if only everything was OK. Most of the times elites were never offered anything even close to their original advantages in home country - thus not many historical evidences of massive betrayals.
Most importantly - nationalism never existed before 18th century and only really established in 19th. There were no such concept as nation!
Elites could have served the king, prince or some other lower member of aristocracy. They could have served priests (bishop's armies, papal state army), merchants (mercenaries), group of people (military forces of oligarchy), but they never served the country!
And changing sides from a very specific person is much easier than from a concept.
Anyway - additional bonuses to resist conversion for a few more turns/by few more converters - good, but no absolutes like "inconvertible" state. It's should be unique to heroes and special units on which the whole concept requires them to be inconvertible.

[Squirrel5555]

This is going very deep for conversion, a mechanic that is not very usable anyway at least in the majority of circumstances.
If you see your enemy blocking a path with an elephant, are you going to create an entire group of converters to deal with it? Seems quite inefficient. Especially when you think of 'late game' death balls, a single unit extra is not very great anymore.

Seems like fake depth, ngl.

[Endru1241]

Maybe no one would constrict converter just to deal with one unit, but it's even worse.
If some player has converters already - it means he prepared for such occurence. And we smash it right in the face.
One research would not only remove 2/3 usefulness of convert (like now), but also allow to use successfuly converted units to be used to block space.
Great tactical use.
And great nerf.

Also - You disregard 140 hp blocking capability too much. Even maxed lancer would deal 68 damage - assuming it's the only tile to pass without even greater turn cost - it's hard to get the rest - 72 damage in the same turn on range.

[Badnorth]

Mmh endru why are some Nordic units not 100% convert resistance or less? Because they are vikings and such they have different culture,activity and beliefs and they Raid villages without purpose (sometimes) plus some are crazed so I think give them convert resistance or a Tech.

[Endru1241]

But they are.
Berserk has exactly 100% resistance.
I hope you don't excpect the whole culture to be crazed and inconvertible.