Mantlet carries siege? IMPLEMENTED

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RiverRaider 1097
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Mantlet carries siege? IMPLEMENTED

Post by RiverRaider 1097 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:27 pm

I imagined this as nothing more than a portable thatch of limbs 5 ft tall( tops) roped together quickly at the front for protection of foot troops how could this possibly be a siege transport this is ridiculous I'm sorry to say fellas ) i think build time should take less time than wall also?
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Re: Mantlet

Post by Stratego (dev) » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:44 pm

right, please list the units that should not be able to be transported by that

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Re: Mantlet

Post by Hardeep » Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:04 pm

As it is, it takes more time than a wall. The uint in general is simply to provide a screen for units, so noone would know what is behind it till they exposed themselves. A mantlet could easily be put up to block the view from enemy forces.even for siege weaponry, as the operatives would be exposed
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Re: Mantlet

Post by RiverRaider 1097 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:39 pm

This is the problem its a simple portable shield it is not originally intended to transport anything its a shield to stand behind to stop arrows! Self supported a simple cover. Just enough to shield one unit man size i believe it should be two but, When wheels was added it became something else! Then implemented
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Re: Mantlet

Post by RiverRaider 1097 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:02 pm

But its more durable than camouflaged screen the weaving will stop arrows but destroyed easily by swords man or horseman right isn't that how its supposed to be for protection not hiding or transporting ? )
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Re: Mantlet

Post by Hardeep » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:35 pm

RiverRaider 1097 wrote:But its more durable than camouflaged screen the weaving will stop arrows but destroyed easily by swords man or horseman right isn't that how its supposed to be for protection not hiding or transporting ? )
Well, its for both. If you don't know where the enemy is behind the mantlet, you dont know if its a swordsman or archer, until it reveals itself by attacking. And part of the protection is limiting enemy intelligence (such as having a few of these set up to hide a tunnel to sap a cities walls). Unless you think that there is a way to 'reveal' the unit behind the mantlet, without protecting vunerable units it wouldn't be worth the 3 turns. The mantlets purpose is used to adavance you vunerable units while mitigating risk. Plus they cannot go on forests or enter any buildings. It is very slow as well, so there is no movement bonus for artillery.
Moral of the story: dont change it
Last edited by Hardeep on Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mantlet

Post by COOLguy » Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:11 am

Hardeep, you have said it. :)
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Re: Mantlet

Post by RiverRaider 1097 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:58 am

But they do move in forest that's the only thing that's originally right lol, hey its all good if you guys want to carry your siege units in bushes with wheels go ahead lol )
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Re: Mantlet

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:57 am

no, mantlet is not a "'carrier", it can only "carry" units that can "tow" that mantlet - so only ground-on-foot units should be in i think.

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Re: Mantlet

Post by RiverRaider 1097 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:38 pm

Yes, my thoughts as well )
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Re: Mantlet

Post by Hardeep » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:47 pm

Well then, if that is the case, how does the mantlet propell itself when noone is using it? Hmmm?
Answer: A poor guys pushing it for insubordination.
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Re: Mantlet

Post by COOLguy » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:54 pm

Hardeep wrote:Well then, if that is the case, how does the mantlet propell itself when noone is using it? Hmmm?
Answer: A poor guys pushing it for insubordination.
and back talk (huh).
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Re: Mantlet

Post by RiverRaider 1097 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:03 pm

That's the whole point, picked up and moved by units or unit that's STANDING behind it very light weight its just to stop arrows as a shield would does not need wheels...unless used by a very old archer lol ) or COOLguy
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Re: Mantlet

Post by benedictarnold » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:15 pm

Sounds like the manlet should be an equitable item, not necessarily a whole new unit. New units can move on their own, this seems like it should only move if someone is using it.

The effect would be +x Pierce armour but -x speed.

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Re: Mantlet

Post by Hardeep » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:20 am

RiverRaider 1097 wrote:That's the whole point, picked up and moved by units or unit that's STANDING behind it very light weight its just to stop arrows as a shield would does not need wheels...unless used by a very old archer lol ) or COOLguy
Okay, let's try a little experiment.
Step 1: become proficient in the use of a longbow.
Step 2: get a large shield approximately 2x your height and 8x your girth, check to see if it is capable of stopping cloth yard arrows shot from a longbow.
Step 3: find a battle
Step 4: haul ass and mantlet over into bowshot range
Step 5: Arrive to the battle with the strength to fight
Step 6: Fire off the longbow after setting up your mantlet. (Enemy retreats out of bowshot as a result)
Step 7: Mobilize the mantlet, pick it up, and advance.
Step 8: Once in bowshot, set up and fire again.
Step 9: repeat step 5-8 until enemy is defeated
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Re: Mantlet

Post by RiverRaider 1097 » Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:02 pm

step one : a longbowman should surly then! have the strength to carry a bundle of limbs five ft. in length probably half the weight we carry now! If not then they should be cooks not bowman )
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Re: Mantlet

Post by Hardeep » Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:56 pm

RiverRaider 1097 wrote:step one : a longbowman should surly then! have the strength to carry a bundle of limbs five ft. in length probably half the weight we carry now! If not then they should be cooks not bowman )
Castle sieges consisted of heavier mantlets due to the fact that longbows were firing down upon them from hundreds of feet up.... lightweight just dont cut it...
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Re: Mantlet

Post by COOLguy » Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:41 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantlet

Internet don't lie. :)

There are many types of mantlets - "mantlets" are even used with modern weapons. The mantlet in the game is made of wooden planks (as the image shows) and mounted on small wheels.

The link above outlines three basic types of mantlet.
RiverRaider 1097 wrote:This is the problem its a simple portable shield it is not originally intended to transport anything its a shield to stand behind to stop arrows! Self supported a simple cover. Just enough to shield one unit man size i believe it should be two but, When wheels was added it became something else! Then implemented
What you describe here is more of a Pavese, which I believe has its own thread (at least on the pre-forum list).
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Re: Mantlet

Post by RiverRaider 1097 » Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:49 pm

I'm pretty sure it was just supposed to be for a front line defense position, not an assault turtle.. question..why can't we turn this into the siege tower just lengthen it increase build time and capacity. Seems this is the mantles current role )
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Re: Mantlet

Post by COOLguy » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:04 pm

The siege tower was supposed to have a bunch of special abilities. Otherwise, yes, the units are very similar.

This mantlet, you can build just out of range of enemy fortifications and bring in fire archers and other weaker units into range with a little protection.
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Re: Mantlet

Post by lordtalamar » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:55 pm

I have to say I think the mantlets are a wee bit overy powered. In their current for they now allow us to move siege through the forest, and make it almost impossible to if some one only builds those and fills them with siege. I agree with raider only foot units should be able to take cover in this. Maybe another unit (aka a siege tower should be able to hold siege wepons) and that unit should have about the same building time as a fortress.

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Re: Mantlet

Post by COOLguy » Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:56 pm

The mantlet costs the same/more than a wall and tower.

Can you put siege units in it still? I haven't been able to.
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Re: Mantlet

Post by RiverRaider 1097 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:56 pm

Yep, I say make build time same as battering ram add height to the image and make it siege tower. Then start over on this unit and design it like originally attended? before wheel was introduced...oh it moves must need a wheel theory? Foot units movement is normally 3 but should be two if carrying a mantlet? )
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Re: Mantlet

Post by COOLguy » Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:27 pm

Mantlet moves one in game.

Historical mantlets did move.

Siege towers are completely different in structure and development.

The unit that has no movement was already suggested as a "Pavese".

:)
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Re: Mantlet

Post by SirDoucheBag » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:14 am

I think turn time to build is O.P. as I have a majority of units as workers making it efficiently easy to Create multiple upon multiple units of such. Suggest 4-5 turns. I believe it's a Bit O.P. when able to travel through forest I suggest making it non passible in forest terrain as They do soak up a decent amount of arrow damage. In turn of Not passing through forest terrain You could increase movement by 1-2 and I agree it should be restricted to Foot units and such as the trebuchet and Catapult would be O.P. do what you will I'm just Submitting Feedback.
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Re: Mantlet

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:44 pm

mantlet changed to carry only infanty units.
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Re: Mantlet carries siege? IMPLEMENTED

Post by COOLguy » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:45 pm

Thanks!
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Re: Mantlet carries siege? IMPLEMENTED

Post by Hardeep » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:09 pm

This unit is useless now... :cry:
After all, there was an older name for it, Siege shield....
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Re: Mantlet carries siege? IMPLEMENTED

Post by COOLguy » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:10 pm

Hardeep wrote:This unit is useless now...
Should we reduce its cost then?

Maybe 3 without Ambidextria and 2 with?
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Re: Mantlet carries siege? IMPLEMENTED

Post by RiverRaider 1097 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:24 am

Good call Dan, maybe the siege tower will get a second look now? )
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