Centurion OP - IMPLEMENTED

[TheBluePhoenix]

I am not that into using hussars but i quite use centurions for the same reason cool guy specified. Also it is a hot fav in ai!! They start making t from the starting turns itself

[COOLguy]

lololol to each his own

[COOLguy]

Sorry I hate to bring this up again, but I think the Centurion is OP. Really OP.

The attack power needs to be lowered. It can kill a halberdier with one hit. Only elephants do that. It is a mounted unit, but the anti-mounted units don't do so well against it. When it is surrounded by infantry it is nigh undefeatable by almost everything.

Its strength was supposed to be its Legion Commander and High Morale effects - not that it is a superhero unit by itself.

[TheBluePhoenix]

Then maybe dev has forgotten to include the bonuses on it for anti cavalry units like he did for horse archer upgrade. Else i think the unit is fine and easily killable

[COOLguy]

Maybe. I am checking.

Editing the above post. Only Elephants kill halberdiers with one hit.

[Alexander82]

Right now high morale don't affect units other than pukeman/swordman. Please don't make it useless. Also the cost of the unit is near the one of elephant...
You might just lowerbthe bonus against halberdiers though

[TheBluePhoenix]

I agree @ alex

[COOLguy]

It doesn't have a bonus on the halberdiers.

Do you play with the Centurion much? Because High morale affects much more than pikemen/swordmen. For one thing you forgot all their upgrades (+3 units)... and the samurai... and the shielder... and the axe thrower... and ALL of patroid's crusaders... and the Templar... AND the Roman Legionaire... AND the SPARTAN!!! Really? Counting the Legion Commander (range 5 - plus one on armor, pierce armor, and attack power) and High Morale effects (range 4 - plus one armor, pierce armor, and attack power) gives a total possible yield of +60 armor, +60 pierce armor, and +60 attack power.

Compared to that entire grand total, does taking off 2 of the Centurion's personal attack (to keep him from operating like a hero unit) really seem that bad?

TheBluePhoenix: do you still agree Alexander82? Maybe he has changed his mind.

Alexander82: Do you think that this will make him useless? Maybe I inspired you to use the Centurion more.

[Alexander82]

I still think the same just for a simple reason... most of the units you spoke of are more or less useless. Centurion is strong because he can also defend himself by following soldiers on the first line without dying in 2 rounds (if you attack a halberdier without killing him you are dead the next turn).

That unit cost 7 and i think it is right that is hard to kill.
The +60 is teoretical because you cant attack with all that infantry at once (only first row) and you would probably use more useful units anyway. Noone makes a army if just halberdiers and man at arms (btw i knew they were affected, just i thought it was obvious, since they are upgrades). The centurion was meant to affect all units, in my project, thats why i consider it ineffective right now.

[Darkknight]

I agree with COOLguy. The main advantage of the centurion is supose to be giving effect which gives units around them more power. But i think that some people use them becuase they are very strong and can easily kill pikemen (and its upgrade) not because they make other units stronger.
I thinkt that thier attack should be decreased so that it will leave the haldberdier with some health so that players will need to use more strategy by killing haldberdier with archers not just attacking them with centurions and they would also need to hide thier centurion inside thier infantry to protect them from anti calvary (pike, lancers)

[TheBluePhoenix]

Actually i partly agree with alex. Not all units centurion offers bonus to are useless . I use centurion to beef up stats of many scattered units of mine which are vulnerable if left by themselves.
But i think it is killable easily and not op given its turn cost

[COOLguy]

I still think the same just for a simple reason... most of the units you spoke of are more or less useless.

I love it when you say it like that. Do you mean 'useless' as in underpowered and all of them needing rebalancing; or 'useless' as in you don't 'use' them. I would have to agree with TheBluePhoenix here - a beefed up Templar being useless?

Centurion is strong because he can also defend himself by following soldiers on the first line without dying in 2 rounds (if you attack a halberdier without killing him you are dead the next turn).

I disagree: the Centurion is an over powered hero unit because he is a mounted unit that can kill a full health halberdier in one attack. Any unit can die in 1 round if attacked by the right units (please name one that can't)
Yes, as of now any mounted unit (elephants excepting) that faces off with a halberdier loses if it attacks first. But what kind of yahoo sends 1 Heavy Knight to attack a Halberdier? What kind would send a Centurion? If you look at the stats, you see that the Halberdier would have 1 hp left after it got hit by a Centurion that's the attack of the scout dog! Hit the Halberdier with anything first and your Centurion is still unscathed.

That unit cost 7 and i think it is right that is hard to kill.

Yes you are right. But being turn cost 7 does not give it any right to be overpowered. I would agree completely with Darkknight here:

The main advantage of the centurion is supose to be giving effect which gives units around them more power. But i think that some people use them becuase they are very strong and can easily kill pikemen (and its upgrade) not because they make other units stronger.

"Centurion is strong" because he is moderately so, but also makes others strong.

The +60 is teoretical because you cant attack with all that infantry at once (only first row) and you would probably use more useful units anyway. Noone makes a army if just halberdiers and man at arms

Yes but it is a potential which is what we are looking at - meaning not everyone will have the radius filled with soldiers (so 'theoretically' the effect could be +0). But you can attack more by shuffling your men as well as using axe throwers not to mention just downright moving the Centurion to another group of infantry. +60 in that case is a nice moderate and easy estimate.

just halberdiers and man at arms (btw i knew they were affected, just i thought it was obvious, since they are upgrades).

Did you not happen to read my entire post? Because I happened to mention over 8 other units that were also affected besides just the pikemen/swordsmen upgrades.

The centurion was meant to affect all units, in my project, thats why i consider it ineffective right now.

Wait are you saying that because it is not more overpowered than it is now, it is obviously underpowered? I use this unit a lot. I think it is extremely effective - when I go with an infantry scheme of attack, I almost always make a couple of these.

ineffective

I'm sorry, I think you should play with it more. Than you will see how 'ineffective' it is!

If you want to use it as a lone wolf unit then yes, this probably should be ineffective: most units are. That's why people use armies - and balanced ones at that! Please use the Hero Knight for an overpowered lone wolf unit.

I don't think taking off 2 from its attack will make it underpowered. In fact, it will not have a major effect on many of its battles save against halberdiers. It is supposed to be a Centurion, not an elephant.

[Alexander82]

I always use centurions and, really, at a certain point in a game when you have 20 infantry in range and a siege weapon can delete all of them in a blow they are useless...
Yes, useless, because many of them are just weak and fragile without some upgrades.
Also, as i've already said, to be a commander unit the centurion should be really a commander... for every unit... It is a cavalry unit and it still don't give bonuses to cavalry, so i really would use just some of them if it wasn't also a good combat unit.

As for other units... you already know what i think about templars... i would rather make 5 man at arms than 52 templars (they really cost too much for what they give), so i'll wait to have their upgrade and see.

[TheBluePhoenix]

Okay so the halberdier should not be able to kill the centurion in 1 turn but neither should the centurion be able to kill a halberdier in 1 turn

[COOLguy]

About Templars: Really??? Wow. But Templars can be used to conserve units, Legionnaires just die...

Actually siege weapons can wipe out huge chunks of pikemen and axe throwers, but the Legionnaires not so much.

Having an effect on all units: I am not so much against that, but the effect would be OP if it was for all units the way it is for infantry. I can't remember Daniel's exact reasoning why it only affects infantry, but if it was for all units it would have to be a little weaker.

But really that whole Templar thing still surprises me.

"Okay so the halberdier should not be able to kill the centurion in 1 turn but neither should the centurion be able to kill a halberdier in 1 turn"
You just beat me to the post. Yes that is right.

[Alexander82]

I don't see why... You just have to send halberdiers 2 at once... The first dies... the second not... i never have trouble at killing centurions...

[TheBluePhoenix]

I dont too ..
But as i have always said, a cavalry unit MAY have a good defense against anti cavalry units but it SURELY SHOULD NOT be more strong than an anti cavalry unit of SAME LEVEL

[Alexander82]

Try confronting it with heavy lancer... it cost 4 vs 3 and it'll work pretty well

[COOLguy]

Yes the Heavy Lancer works pretty well against these.

[HokanPL]

People, people...

What about the idea Centurion can be HERO, not recruitable unit?

[COOLguy]

Alexander82 would kill you for suggesting that. he loves the Centurion! I really like making it too.

[Alexander82]

Alexander82 would kill you for suggesting that. he loves the Centurion! I really like making it too.

Exactly xD

[HokanPL]

*taking sword to right hand and pistol to left one*

I AM READY

[Alexander82]

*pick up his Dragon Slayer* xD

Ok stop going ot lol xD

[Stratego (dev)]

was this discussion closed?

[COOLguy]

Yes, fixed.

[Stratego (dev)]

i find the 7 turn cost to be too much, so i reduced it to 6 turns. is it ok? any comments?

[COOLguy]

No comment.

[tamtam12345]

I think 7 turns is more suitable.

[TheBluePhoenix]

dev i think you might consider reducing the spartan to 6 first