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Goblin rowboat

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:23 pm
by Patrol3110
Basically goblin rowboat which has an archer on it, here are some stats i was thinking about:
Cost: 3
Hp:25
Dmg:8, affectable by goblin upgrades.
Range: 4, affectable by goblin upgrades
Speed: 4 or 5
Sight: 6Armour: 1
P. Armour: 2
Can get goblin grenade.
Its main purpose would be sucicidal. The stats arent definite so feel free to post your own.

Re: Goblin rowboat

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:27 pm
by Sunrise Samurai
Patrol3110 wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:23 pm
Its main purpose would be sucicidal.
Cost 2
Hp 10
Power 0
Armor 4/4
Speed 3
Goblin grenade

Suicidal

Re: Goblin rowboat

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:33 pm
by Patrol3110
There is also the option of making it an siege/anti ship unit:
Hp: 40
Dmg:10
Armour: 4/4
Range:5
Speed:3
Sight:6
Abbilities:Burning weapon (active effect)
High bonuses vs ships and normal bonus vs buildings

But it wouldnt be a rowboat then

Re: Goblin rowboat

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:54 pm
by Sunrise Samurai
That's no rowboat. Something like calling the death star a small moon.

Re: Goblin rowboat

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:12 am
by Savra
I actually prefer the very first stats. It just makes sense and gives the orcs a ranged sea unit that's not very strong. Should it have elite goblin row boat and master goblin row boat? That would make sense plus the cost seems fine.

Re: Goblin rowboat

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:08 am
by makazuwr32
Not very strong?
It is stronger and dealier than human ships especially for human ships. Especially with same as human ship speed

I prefer sunrise's stats.

Re: Goblin rowboat

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:22 am
by Savra
I say keep original stats but remove the effected by upgrades plus bonus to ships. We have a lot of units that swim and aren't ships that this unit would be good against. Basically it could be like goblin cannon fodder only no shoot unit ability of double actions and not the same range. Health be low since its just a rowboat and armour be low as well. Speed is fine at 4. It can still be affected by goblin shout and goblin grenades but not orc skin upgrades which you have to the cannon fodder btw.

Re: Goblin rowboat

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:07 am
by makazuwr32
Rowboat with speed 4 is too fast.
Also what i don't like very first stats in first post of patrol:
1. Fire arrows: it is dangerous on ship to held fire, also because humans will be in worst position because of naval units they have only burnable ships and orcs can already easily kill human fleet with their merlocks.
2. High speed and high hp. Orcs are not the best ship builders.
3. Too high speed (again): it is rowboat. It can't have same speed as real big ship.

Re: Goblin rowboat

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:16 am
by Midonik
Sunrise Samurai wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:27 pm
Patrol3110 wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:23 pm
Its main purpose would be sucicidal.
Cost 2
Hp 10
Power 0
Armor 4/4
Speed 3
Goblin grenade

Suicidal
That boi.
Orcs don't need naval support for ground units, merlocks are good engoun in amphibious assaults. This can deal with numberous ships if used correctly, and can be spammed in mass numbers, and isn't op. Needs goblin granade to be useful, but that was the idea, right?

Re: Goblin rowboat

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:19 am
by makazuwr32
Exactly, midonik.
This one is the best.

Re: Goblin rowboat

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:38 am
by Patrol3110
I'd say just give sunrise stats +5 hp and its ok

Re: Goblin rowboat

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:18 pm
by Sunrise Samurai
Patrol3110 wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:38 am
I'd say just give sunrise stats +5 hp and its ok
I gave it 10 hp to be within kill range of goblin grenade. We could go up to 14 I suppose and let the burning finish it off. I don't want useless ships hanging around for no reason when they can't do anything but tank a hit or two.

Re: Goblin rowboat

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:16 pm
by Savra
The reason I like patrols idea is because the ai is too stupid to use the goblin grenade and even if it could both played and ai have to wait till they gain the goblin grenade to be order to do anything with the boat. Here's my suggestion:

Goblin rowboat:
Cost:3
Hp:14
Atk:6
Rng:4
Sight:4
Spd:3
Arm:1
P.arm:4
Abilities:
Goblin gernade: same everything a goblin has. Just be researched as normal.
Has same miss chance as goblin archer.
Does not have burning weapon.

Re: Goblin rowboat

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:28 pm
by makazuwr32
No.
Goblins are not so good to shoot from boats. (Too low miss chance and too high damage).
And this rowboat still as for me has too much hp.

Re: Goblin rowboat

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:56 pm
by Savra
I know hp is debatebal, but the fact that it has no bonus to ships which means it's only good as a ranged support makes it still useful tool you get the goblin gernade, then you can put it to full use as a suicidal ship. It does not receive goblin upgrades except for the goblin shout and gernade. What's the point of a goblin grenade tech if the goblin row boat is exempt from that? You also have to think about the ai, and how they use these. All they'll be doing with them if they have 0 attack is attempt to attack your ships like they do with the human workers which is just pitifal considering how they have zero attack also.

Re: Goblin rowboat

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:35 pm
by makazuwr32
Another problems here are
1. that this one can after grenade be a junk wall enemy need to clear which i don't like to see.
2. I see no reasons that it can't have melee range and melee damage. Why not?
3. We can just exclude it from ai.
4. Main reasons is balancing game around human-human, not around human-ai.
5. I don't like idea of ranged ship for orcs.

Re: Goblin rowboat

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:57 pm
by Savra
Humans ship has range 6, plus bonus to ships. Goblin rowboat has range 4 with miss chance and no bonus to ships. If an archer is having difficulty being added to the row boat then we can do one of two things:
1) make it be like a small version of the war barge with goblin grenade and 1 capacity.
2) change range type to something with lower damage but an extra action like a goblin slinger. Low range, attack, and double actions. Or just make him a torcher with low range, damage and while action but with burning weapon but that crosses over with the batrider.

Updated stats.

Re: Goblin rowboat

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:19 pm
by makazuwr32
Lower hp by 1 more. So it will burn from its own grenade.
Lower damage by 2 (it must have same damage as goblin archer, not higher) and remove bonuses.

P.armor can be raised to 4.

Re: Goblin rowboat

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:52 pm
by Savra
Done.

Re: Goblin rowboat

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:18 pm
by Alexander82
Guys what about a ranged merlock instead? It would make more sense imho

I had already in project to make one and I really think that the best ships should still be a human thing

Re: Goblin rowboat

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:22 pm
by makazuwr32
Here i agree.
But a little boat with goblin full of explosives can be still in.

Re: Goblin rowboat

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:31 pm
by Alexander82
Sure.

Maybe it might be built only after the goblin grenade tech

The only other boat i'd make is a barge for assaults with your own units on other ships (it would also act like a transport this way). Potentially strong but with the risk of loosing 4 units inside