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Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:55 pm
by Savra
makazuwr32 wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:19 am
Watcher looks more like mix of demonic look, hi-tech and alien. And definately not as ghost in the armor.

As for phantom minion i just don't like look of it (visual) - it looks like hobbit armor. Sauron's hobbit in armor.

And also i removed both of them because conjurer this way had too much spells: 2 summons, 3 damaging spells, 1 buff spell + first summon with a bit too good stats while other summon adds 3 more abilities (in total 9 abilities for 8 turn cost unit! A bit TOO much!!!).
I can understand removing some spells. But remember the mage has 6 spells for a 5 turn unit, and from what I've seen undead are supposed to be better spell casters because it makes more sense for them to be it. Not fav masters. The phantom minion was supposed to be a defender that wasn't supposed to be overly strong plus I suggested a halfling imperial anyway and this could be a possessed armour of one. That's temporary.

I'm simpler terms it's like my gnoll gaurdian only with less stats and vanishing since you can get more of these units with more spells unlike me who split it to compensate the other units stats.(no that's not a complaint, just stating I understand your reasoning. :) )

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:56 pm
by Savra
Lynx Shafir wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:47 pm
Lower max spell res to 60-80%, (u can't even slow them - very hard to 3 race now that decreased cost)!

Now really looks as sub race (or a bunch of walking armores)..
Phantoms are living armours. Plus they all have 100% spell resist.

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:58 pm
by Lynx Shafir
Oh can u try to put a living bull head on bull knight to look a bit different? (a bit fantomic)

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:31 pm
by Lynx Shafir
Savra wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:56 pm
Lynx Shafir wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:47 pm
Lower max spell res to 60-80%, (u can't even slow them - very hard to 3 race now that decreased cost)!

Now really looks as sub race (or a bunch of walking armores)..
Phantoms are living armours. Plus they all have 100% spell resist.
Its bad that all heavy units are immune to any spell.
So 80 max would be better.

Have high Phisical protection and relativ cheap cost
And immune to exorcism too!?

(Also ghost are not strongly holding in this world, and they are continously pulled away.weakened, and need host to hold -
The Curse what imprisoned on armor won't protect m from different spells(and effect Wath use spell res )

Also many casters - who are strong minded - trained to deflect spells ,have less than 100 %.
Conclusion 1)need to lower it (until 2)
2)need more resistence tipe

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:37 pm
by DoomsdayDragonfire
Lynx Shafir wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:47 pm
Lower max spell res to 60-80%, (u can't even slow them - very hard to 3 race now that decreased cost)!

Now really looks as sub race (or a bunch of walking armores)..
Lynx Shafir wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:31 pm
Its bad that all heavy units are immune to any spell.
So 80 max would be better.

Have high Phisical protection and relativ cheap cost
And immune to exorcism too!?

(Also ghost are not strongly holding in this world, and they are continously pulled away.weakened, and need host to hold -
The Curse what imprisoned on armor won't protect m from different spells(and effect Wath use spell res )

Also many casters - who are strong minded - trained to deflect spells ,have less than 100 %.
Conclusion 1)need to lower it (until 2)
2)need more resistence tipe
Cheap? Did you forgot that they do have logistic disavantage?!, In order to produce them, you must deploy their high cost building, isn't like the imperials that can be made in many different and cheap buildings... Also i don't need to say twice that they are not sub-race, since you can just read on the older posts. Zzz

I agree with that part that no unit should be immune to any spell, btw, i must remind you that on phantoms, many on-hit stats work on them, aswell as ofensive spells, also to the other part, that would require more kinds of spells with different effects that aren't in game yet, but in fact, they are actually immune to the current set of non offensive spells, for example, the only way to effectivelly slow them would be ice/freezing spells, or time freezing spells, also, they don't own disavantages as like, have a mind to be controled, or a soul to be redeemed, suffer with burning, poisoning, bleeding, fear, or other curses... So for now, i think that part does not need to change.

Well if you want to complain about the overall spell resistance on elite units, you should make a post for it.

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:54 am
by makazuwr32
Savra wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:55 pm
makazuwr32 wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:19 am
Watcher looks more like mix of demonic look, hi-tech and alien. And definately not as ghost in the armor.

As for phantom minion i just don't like look of it (visual) - it looks like hobbit armor. Sauron's hobbit in armor.

And also i removed both of them because conjurer this way had too much spells: 2 summons, 3 damaging spells, 1 buff spell + first summon with a bit too good stats while other summon adds 3 more abilities (in total 9 abilities for 8 turn cost unit! A bit TOO much!!!).
I can understand removing some spells. But remember the mage has 6 spells for a 5 turn unit, and from what I've seen undead are supposed to be better spell casters because it makes more sense for them to be it. Not fav masters. The phantom minion was supposed to be a defender that wasn't supposed to be overly strong plus I suggested a halfling imperial anyway and this could be a possessed armour of one. That's temporary.

I'm simpler terms it's like my gnoll gaurdian only with less stats and vanishing since you can get more of these units with more spells unlike me who split it to compensate the other units stats.(no that's not a complaint, just stating I understand your reasoning. :) )
1. Mage of humans cost 6 turns and his best spell needs another 6 turns for research.
And mage also has 2 almost useless abilities (i never saw them used) - disarmor and disenchant. First one is useless because 1. Many units have high spell resist. 2. Your mage on open field will die on next turn if enemy has any good ranged units. And second ability is not so useful because 2 turn healers have that as well.
2. Mage himself is much weaker than phantom conjurer and can die from ranged units extremly easy. This one will live for pretty long time and annoy your enemies.
If i will have a choice what caster i want to get (for example on custom map) - human mage or phantom conjurer of my suggestion - i will choose phantom conjurer because of 2 offencive spells, self healing from one of them, good support (+2/+2 armor is good) and much better survivability.
3. Imperial halfling sounds like "baby troll" - i can't imagine it as useful fighting force; also sounds awful (will burn away from 1-2 stacks easily, will have worse stats than normal orc for same cost).
4. Phantom minion is useless as well with my spells revamp because it is much better to use ofrencive spell usually for them rather than that weakling and also please don't forget than undeads will get (hopefully) soon even more summoners (from corpses or from units around) so this is also reason why i don't want conjurer to have summon.
5. Max limit of abilities (apart from shapeshifting for druids) is 6 including abilities of summons + 1 aura.
Lynx Shafir wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:47 pm
Lower max spell res to 60-80%, (u can't even slow them - very hard to 3 race now that decreased cost)!

Now really looks as sub race (or a bunch of walking armores)..
1. Phantoms will be only garrison and mansion (maybe, later) units only. Both buildings are costly.
2. Their stats are weakened as well so it will be easier a bit to kill them without any spells.
3. They are counterpart of imperials and those have 100% spell resist as well.
4. Undeads need some high spell resist units with good stats for them (apart from special units like death knight and that rider with styche)
5. As for slowing itself:
Humans don't need to slow them down - they need to stop them with their imperials and drake knights;
Elves can swarm them with their archers and with sentinels (after implementation);
Dwarves will have much better armor so phantoms won't be a problem for them even without slowing;
Orcs have lots of giants, uruks (and they cost 3 turns!) and great 4 turn cost master wolf riders which will be superior against nearly all phantoms (exept of pikeman and bull knight).

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:07 am
by Tankhead
Nice concept with a good amount to add in
This will take time to add everything just by looking at it

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:25 am
by Savra
We might just switch conjurers dark bolt out with dark burst. It's less op and I can see problems with the new curse thing were dark burst only has a fear passive. Plus, it already has a good image.

Oh yes, and theres something wrong with the images on first page.

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:34 am
by makazuwr32
Uhm. I don't like neither dark bolt nor dark burst spells. (Not images though).

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:38 am
by Savra
Oh wait, I knew I missed something. Alright I'll just give it to dark citadel.

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:40 am
by makazuwr32
Savra wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:38 am
Oh wait, I knew I missed something. Alright I'll just give it to dark citadel.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:25 pm
Image
Phantom Conjurer
Cost: 6
Hp: 28
Attack power: 1
Range: 1
Armor: 1
Pierce Armor: 3
Speed: 3
Sight: 6
Action /turn: 1
Spell Range: 5
Spell possibility: 100%
Spell Resistance: 100%
Abilities:
Phantasmal overload: fireball-like ability, deals 10 damage to all units in range, no aftereffect applied, range - 5, cooldown - 3 turns.
Energy syphon: deals 8 damage to enemy, heals for 8 hp caster. No cooldown, range - 5.
Cursed shield: adds to target friendly unit +2/+2 armor. No cooldown.
Fear: as usual, range - 5.
Size: 1x1
Here are stats which i suggested for phantom conjurer.

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:44 am
by Savra
Yes, we need the image fixed. :lol:

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:56 am
by Savra
Let's see we got all these correct?

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:59 am
by Tankhead
Looks like it

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:45 am
by Savra
Ummm, what happened to the phantom Conjurer and Juggernaut?

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:06 am
by Savra
I mean I have the updated conjurer, because I was planning on giving it golden form.
But, I can't help on the Juggernaut.
Well, it was waiting for it so here.

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:46 am
by General Brave
Perhaps it got deleted on discord that's why.

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:52 am
by Savra
General Brave wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:46 am
Perhaps it got deleted on discord that's why.
Does anyone still have it? I know Doomsday dragonfire has it. But his whereabouts are unknown to me but that's fine since its not really my business to know were everyone's at.

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:55 am
by Tankhead
DDD been gone for awhile
( gone from discord )
And from the looks of it not on forums either.
Anything Veil or any ideas he was making is on hold

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:20 pm
by Savra
(I wonder why the phantoms and certain other topics of his were effected but the chicken horse one wasn't?)

Should I make a stand in Juggernaut for now?

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:23 pm
by Tankhead
It was more so a joke

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:28 pm
by Lynx Shafir
Savra wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:20 pm
(I wonder why the phantoms and certain other topics of his were effected but the chicken horse one wasn't?)

Should I make a stand in Juggernaut for now?
Leave juggernaut for later pls. (need the name for a diff unit)
As a separate unit not a phantom.


And don't think phantoms needs any upgrade.
1.can be to powerful armor (some will be cheaper too)
2.i think for upgrade gold colour don't fits.
A sub special wud be nicer imho.
3.Alex wants some tech upgrades and not unit ones.. If im not wrong..

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:35 pm
by Savra
It's already been balanced by Makazuwru, and Juggernaut has already been agreed on being Phantom no more say. The topic is ready in stats and everything but because of us missing an image this pack won't get in until we get a new Juggernaut of get the old one back.

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:06 pm
by Tankhead
Yea agree
Kinda too late to be saying
"It doesn't fit" when this has been ready for awhile now

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:58 pm
by Savra
This fine for a juggernaut stand in?

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:24 pm
by Savra
If we give the conjurer the upgrade then it's normal one can just have 1/2 armour and 25 Hp, while the old form could just have 2/3 armour and 30 hp plus a 6 spell range. Judging by the looks of it the phantom upgrade, if it's only one that effects everyone, would probably cost somewhere between 8 to 10 turns max for the whole phantom group, since it's only 1 upgrade. In other words:
Conjurer:
Hp:25 -
Arm: 1
P.arm:2 -

Gold Conjurer:
Hp:30
S.rng:6
Arm:2
P.arm:3

Juggernaut could probably have:
For normal:
Atk:28 -
Arm:3 -
P.arm:3 -

That way upgrade would have:
Hp:110
Atk:32
Arm:4
P.arm:4

Now the lower stats of first form is only because I'm trying not to make them too strong in second form, but if stats are allowed to be higher in second form from the original stats then they can be raised a bit.

This is just a suggestion.

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:25 pm
by Savra
@makazuwr32 what do you think about this? That way it's completed to the fullest.

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:15 pm
by makazuwr32
Next weekends i will answer.

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:49 pm
by General Brave
Well, it seems these will be work on.

Re: The Phantom Update

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:16 am
by Savra
Needs golden tech icon, and elite group icon.