Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

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LordOfAles
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by LordOfAles » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:11 am

Uh, you do know that this is more costy than uruks and probably weaker than upgraded uruk archers, right? This is not the case here. Besides, golden or not, miss or not, in mid-late game skeleton archers are becoming practically useless. Undeads are too weak in range. Every race can improve their ranged units a lot except undeads that only have weak skeleton archer, and that cannot be upgraded to do any serious damage. Having relatively same ranged units from the beginning to the end is dumb.
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makazuwr32
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:00 pm

I am talking about other thing:
Uruks must be as sub race who has high cost and not be spammable.
Right now 70% of players use uruks as their main units. Not regular orcs and goblins.

1. i want to fix this.
2. i don't want to become phantoms as undead main units just because they can.

Maybe also add for undeads some upgrade instead that adds them even more p.armor.


I don't want to add undeads any range higher than they have now.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by Typhoon » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:05 pm

Its still comparing 3 turn unit to 5 turn unit while in orcs point of view its only 1 turn more than basic unit. In undead point of view its 3 turns more than basic unit and after all armored skeletons are not that bad
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by LordOfAles » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:52 pm

But that isn't the topic here, @makazuwr32 . That's about balancing uruks, this is about implementing phantom crossbowman. Also Typhoon is right. Btw can you point out exactly why you don't want SLIGHTLY better ranged units for undeads other than "that is supposed to be their weakness"? Also, phantoms can't be main units. They are expensive(unspammable) and trained from long to build building.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by LordOfAles » Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:27 pm

Now we just need image and stats.
We can modify imperial crossbowman's stats, that will be easier to JSON too.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by General Brave » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:27 pm

Ok.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by Tankhead » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:46 pm

If this comes to vote im with phantom crossbow men. All races besides dwarves (which really don't matter cause they have other things) have multiple archer units. In my eyes giving undead another archer unit is a step closer to having a balance race

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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:51 pm

I still against FOR NOW, until elves are balanced, addition of ANY new ranged units for undeads.

Let us firstly balance and update elves (they need many things, i am working on list what actually they need) and after they will be balanced we will think about better ranged unit for undeads if you want.
Tankhead wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:46 pm
If this comes to vote im with phantom crossbow men. All races besides dwarves (which really don't matter cause they have other things) have multiple archer units. In my eyes giving undead another archer unit is a step closer to having a balance race
IF we will "balance" races in this way then:
1. Every race needs giant units of same altitude as Olog hais and other giants of orcs.
2. Every race needs same great casters and undeads. especially ways of working with corpses.
3. Every race needs blacksmith upgrades as humans or elves and dodges as elves have.
4. every race needs same good cavalry as undeads and orcs.
5. every race needs same great flying units as scaledfolks.
6. Every race needs same great anti archer units as orcs.

Shall i continue this list?!
Or we will work to the different way - making races more unique with weaknesses and strengths?
Which way do you prefer: to make all races more similar and turn AoF into parody on AoS or enhance current mechanics

Personally i prefer second.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by Tankhead » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:25 pm

What? I said balanced because dead really lack range. And yes i know they not suppose to have range but adding another range unit wouldn't hurt.
These phantoms are pretty much like the imperial units from humans but for the undead

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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:32 pm

Not exactly - humans can train them earlier, they have worse stats, humans have worse casters than undeads and NONE of impretial units have passive on-hit effect.
Phantom axeman has - applies curse on hit. EVEN to units with 100% spell resist.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by LordOfAles » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:34 pm

And im still with Tankhead. We can both balance elves and implement this at same time too. Besides, who said this crossbowman will be OP or something. They won't make much difference now and then juswt add more diversity which is needed for undead because their ranged units (actually only skeleton archers) suck. And i mean SUCK. This is an elite unit that won't impact much on elves. Also elves are "bad" because they lack more features, not because other races are "strong" so this unit won't impact elves.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by General Brave » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:46 pm

The elves really need those units in the voting selection.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by LordOfAles » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:49 pm

Exactly. The crossbowman has nothing to do with them. Maybe your playstyle has something to do with it, mak.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by LordOfAles » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:21 pm

.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:25 pm

Without me.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by LordOfAles » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:25 pm

Kk. Get well soon.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:28 pm

I'll return one month later just to see what kind of balance you will make.
I will not balance everything for you then. at all - that is not my problem anymore.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by General Brave » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:29 pm

Can you guys stop fighting?
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by General Brave » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:36 pm

It seems I am taking all suggestions, might as well take over Aof, since Alexander doesn't appear much and cool guy doesn't do much in aof area. Should I create a vote for units.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:37 pm

See you one month later.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by General Brave » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:41 pm

Why
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:03 pm

Because someone has no respect for work of balancing i am making and think that "just another archer will not ruin balance"...
Well it will not ofc ruin current balance because it is already ruined but in my model it will ruin. It's like as trying to add to mechanical clocks which someone is trying to fix a part from airplane.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by General Brave » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:05 pm

Well we can hold off the Archer from now until we balance things out.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:09 pm

I will return tomorrow.
Specifically for not so genious persons
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by General Brave » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:11 pm

Glad to hear, can you put those suggestions back, I kind of need them.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by Lynx Shafir » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:13 pm

Don't leave us Mak, we need u.! :o :cry:

Seriously, ur work is appreciated and vital.
Isn't Ales?
:D
Please stop fighting.

My opinion is the priority of unique units for elf and undeads(casters and giants)
*cough Angel of Death caught *
And essentials for humans (elephant fire archers)

Also this are suposed to be cursed armors, in mellee variety like in firs post.
So for me a crossbow men is a bit foregein.

General u r co-leader so you might make a vote.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by General Brave » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:14 pm

I'm not co, but basically it seems the whole Community has accepting me as it.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by General Brave » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:15 pm

Might as well someone should make it official.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by LordOfAles » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:18 pm

I don't see why not. You did a lot for community.
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Re: Phantom Guard - Undead Elite - Long post! ACCEPTED

Post by LordOfAles » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:53 pm

Also... @makazuwr32
I never disrespected either you, or your work, or anything you did, you are obviusly exaggerating. And your argument just showed how much you respect/disrespect me instead.
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