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Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:47 am
by Sunrise Samurai
Cost 4
Hp 12
Armor 0/0
Power 10
Speed 5 (flying)
Spell resistance 0%

When this unit hits a biological target, that unit is poisoned and turned into a hostile neutral unit that attacks anything, friend or foe.

Not likely to live long, but can be the next thing to an assassin if used properly. Probably built in TCs and great trees.

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:50 am
by General Brave
Biological warfare, I thought elves were peaceful.

But anyway, it seems like a advantage for the elves. But there will be some people resistant to it.

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:51 am
by General Brave
Especially those wearing a ton of armor.

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:17 am
by Sunrise Samurai
If a dryad or poison archer automatically injects their toxins into the victim on hit regardless of armor, I don't see why this would be much different.

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:21 am
by General Brave
So it well affect everyone?

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:12 pm
by DoomCarrot
Madness poison... I like it. It gives the elves an ability that can cause chaos while they skirmish from afar. Needs to be hard to get and easy to take down though to be balanced.

Like a 4-5 cost unit with 5 hp lol.

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:31 pm
by General Brave
You now serves the Queensss

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:37 pm
by Sunrise Samurai
Considering anything worth using it on will be protected by archers/kill it by counterattack, 12 hp is probably okay.
General Brave wrote:You now serves the Queensss
I was more thinking berserk. Serving nobody, and completely mad.

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:44 pm
by General Brave
Permanently or it will go away after a while.

If it is permanently, you better keep some archers around. Don't want it to touch your major units.

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:50 pm
by Sunrise Samurai
Permanent, though it may still attack the elf player you know. And who doesn't keep some archers around?

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:41 pm
by General Brave
Sound good, do you have a image for it?

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:47 pm
by Sunrise Samurai
Nope, though I'd appreciate one

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:49 pm
by General Brave
Well I can try, but it might not come out perfect. Can you detail it for me?

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:52 pm
by Sunrise Samurai
Giant wasp.

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:55 pm
by General Brave
Well that's helpful, anyways off to work with it.

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:46 pm
by General Brave
Mindstinger Wasp 1.png
Mindstinger Wasp 1.png (2.61 KiB) Viewed 2465 times

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:47 pm
by General Brave
Might be better someone else take this out of my hand.

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:57 pm
by DoomCarrot
That looks like a bee :)

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:52 pm
by General Brave
How about you tried to do it.

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:53 pm
by General Brave
How about you tried to do it.

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:17 am
by DoomCarrot
I could try but I am not very good pixel artist lol

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:19 am
by General Brave
I had a better quality but somehow the save file change to different picture thingy.

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:47 am
by Alexander82
What kind of success percent do you have in mind for 0% spell resistance units?

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:57 am
by Sunrise Samurai
I was thinking it was a purely chemistry based effect. The toxin alters brain chemistry to induce rage and aggression sufficient to overpower any feelings of loyalty a unit may have. (Actually I would be surprised to find out such a thing exists in real life, just on a scale that won't work on humans.) I wasn't​ picturing spell resistance playing a part, since it is more of a highly unreliable assassin than a conversion ability. Also useless against anything not biological, including undead.

You could use it on a few weaker units, who are probably going to still attack you and the wasp dies to archer fire, or you could go for one big target and hope to score, say, an orc king bashing his own troops, but the wasp is certainly going to die to counterattack/archers.

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:09 am
by Alexander82
I think this is too powerful.

Having a 100% chance to make an enemy unit neutral (anyone would go for the biggest and more costly unit) it is too much.

Converting and ettin or an imperial knight with a 100% chance, even tough you don't gain control of it, it is really game changing.

I would like it more if it had a fixed 20% or 30% chance since it can also convert units with 100% resistance.

It simply might be a matter of physical resistance to poison (it might work on a fortitude resistance if we implement those kind of mechanics).

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:27 am
by Sunrise Samurai
Now a fortitude based system sounds like a good idea. I know we've discussed it before. Remember it's not a true conversion, and you're probably going to get the wasp shot before it can reach something if it's not hidden in a building. If it's in a building, that means said ettin is probably going to continue base smashing as it is. 30% is probably a bit too unreliable for an effect that is already unreliable after it's been applied. Maybe 50%?

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:01 pm
by Alexander82
I think that 50% it is still too high. Those kind of effects _must_ be unreliable, otherwise any player would just make a lot of wasps hidden in parapets and would prepare a counterstrike right after making enemy units uncontrollable.

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:44 pm
by LordOfAles
Let's give it 25% and 4 turn cost

Re: Mindstinger Wasp

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:18 pm
by LordOfAles
Revamped look