Monastery ACCEPTED

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StormSaint373
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Monastery ACCEPTED

Post by StormSaint373 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:50 pm

A church like structure built on mountain terrain.

Thoughts?
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Lynx Shafir
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Re: Monastery

Post by Lynx Shafir » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:09 am

Aside of terrain what provides?

Maybe trains monks who can...
make vine and cheese... :?

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Re: Monastery

Post by StormSaint373 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:28 pm

Maybe allows creation of priests, and other religious units...
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Re: Monastery

Post by General Brave » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:59 am

Just small or big.
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Re: Monastery

Post by StormSaint373 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:58 pm

Well, working on 32x, I'll post soon.
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Re: Monastery

Post by StormSaint373 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:26 am

@General Brave , @Stratego (dev)

Here's a 32x image of the Monastery

Trains all religious units and crusader units

Cost: 2x a cathedral
Hp: 70
Armor: 2/6
Heal Rate: 15
Vision: 6
Carry Cap: 3

Thoughts?
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AoS Monastery.png
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Re: Monastery

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:12 am

I think it is a good image!
suggestions:
- seems a little flat because of maybe some missing shades? (both side is same shading now)
- recently we make separate images for occupied and not occupied versions
- also it can overlap a little upwards, that gives more 3D feeling when unit goes behind it.

thanks!

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Re: Monastery

Post by StormSaint373 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:27 am

Ok... @Stratego (dev)

• So, I'll increase height by... Say 10, 13, 15 pixels?
• how can I fix the shading?
• I'll separate images
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Re: Monastery

Post by StormSaint373 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:16 pm

Alright, @Stratego (dev) , here is the revision.
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AoS Monastery.png
AoS Monastery.png (1.33 KiB) Viewed 481 times
AoS Monastery Occupied.png
AoS Monastery Occupied.png (1.43 KiB) Viewed 481 times
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Puss_in_Boots
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Re: Monastery

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:06 am

Actually we should be shading up to down, not side to side because of the new orientation possibility. Both sides can still look different since no building is perfectly symmetrical. But the shading should be somewhat similar on both sides.
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Re: Monastery

Post by StormSaint373 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:35 pm

Unfortunately, there isn't much overhang to shade from...

On scale of top to bottom... Nothing would be shaded for fact that everything is in view of light source.
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Lynx Shafir
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Re: Monastery

Post by Lynx Shafir » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:37 pm

May I try?
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Re: Monastery

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:08 am

I mean try to shade around the center of the object in image.
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Re: Monastery

Post by StormSaint373 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:08 am

Isn't it already?

Ofc @Lynx Shafir , you may.
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Re: Monastery

Post by StormSaint373 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:07 pm

What do you think, @End@Endru1241 ?
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Re: Monastery

Post by Endru1241 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:57 pm

About image - I like the previous one better. Could you try how it looks elongated more proportionally by let's say 10 px
About idea - I think it kinda duplicates church, making it redundant (or left only as healing structure).
I have few ideas:
1. Religious castle (but it would need bigger image) - trains trebuchet, monk (new 2 turn healer unit - with no or worse conversion), religious orders units (+teuton)
2. The same but instead religious orders trains crusaders.
3. Pure healing structure (like church or maybe even cathedral) but without training ability (so healing tower able to rebuild on mountains).
4. Normal factory, maybe with fervor aura (but then no healing or worse) training monks (3 or 4 turn healers with no or worse conversion) and training "mini crusade" - like auxiliary for Romans - random crusader unit maybe additionally training "religious orders help" - similar, but longer to build -random religious order unit.
5. Castle like in 1 or 2, but one or both sets of units gets exchanged by random production in 4.

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Re: Monastery

Post by StormSaint373 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:09 pm

How big would you prefer?

32x
64x
128x
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Re: Monastery

Post by StormSaint373 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:30 pm

Endru1241 wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:57 pm
About image - I like the previous one better. Could you try how it looks elongated more proportionally by let's say 10 px
About idea - I think it kinda duplicates church, making it redundant (or left only as healing structure).
I have few ideas:
1. Religious castle (but it would need bigger image) - trains trebuchet, monk (new 2 turn healer unit - with no or worse conversion), religious orders units (+teuton)
2. The same but instead religious orders trains crusaders.
3. Pure healing structure (like church or maybe even cathedral) but without training ability (so healing tower able to rebuild on mountains).
4. Normal factory, maybe with fervor aura (but then no healing or worse) training monks (3 or 4 turn healers with no or worse conversion) and training "mini crusade" - like auxiliary for Romans - random crusader unit maybe additionally training "religious orders help" - similar, but longer to build -random religious order unit.
5. Castle like in 1 or 2, but one or both sets of units gets exchanged by random production in 4.
Ofc,out of the purposes that were presented...

I like options 1&2, and 5

Religious Castle, 64x or 128x64...

Recruits:
Templars (and mounted)
Hospitallers
Monk
Priest
Missionary
Inquisitor (maybe)

Crusaders
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Endru1241
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Re: Monastery

Post by Endru1241 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:30 pm

I intentionally didn't mention priests. Let them stay in church and tc only.
Look at units produced by regular castle. It doesn't get real cavalry, nor archers, nor any healers.
It let's You train infantry, but without 2-turners, emergency knight, slower lancer, 1 range converter, two shots only powerful archer and more powerful axe thrower, who can't hit anything.
Not one factory is completely replaced by castle.
That's why I think the best would be training only trebuchet, pure healing unit, random religious order unit by cost of 4-5 (including teuton) and random crusader by the cost of 2-3 (excluding Lord of course). Adding new units could also be done.
Castle-like monastery could also get ranged healing, but weaker attack and armor, than castle.

About image - I think it should get then castle -sized one - 96x96 ( with top 32px being overlay).

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Re: Monastery

Post by StormSaint373 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:52 am

Endru1241 wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:30 pm
I intentionally didn't mention priests. Let them stay in church and tc only.
Look at units produced by regular castle. It doesn't get real cavalry, nor archers, nor any healers.
It let's You train infantry, but without 2-turners, emergency knight, slower lancer, 1 range converter, two shots only powerful archer and more powerful axe thrower, who can't hit anything.
Not one factory is completely replaced by castle.
That's why I think the best would be training only trebuchet, pure healing unit, random religious order unit by cost of 4-5 (including teuton) and random crusader by the cost of 2-3 (excluding Lord of course). Adding new units could also be done.
Castle-like monastery could also get ranged healing, but weaker attack and armor, than castle.

About image - I think it should get then castle -sized one - 96x96 ( with top 32px being overlay).
Understandable...

So just
Templars
Hospitaller
Teutonic knight
Monk
Trebuchet
Crusaders (Random, cost 3) although stats are cost 2, and crusader knight needs stats revamp
Last edited by StormSaint373 on Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Endru1241
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Re: Monastery

Post by Endru1241 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:21 am

Well. Archer is 2-cost stats indeed, but there are veteran versions of regular armyman and knight - One is equivalent to broadswordsman, the other is between knight and heavy knight.
I'd say their cost value would be something like this:
archer -2
regular crusader - 2
veteran - 2.5
knight - 3
veteran knight - 4
If there would be equal chances for each - it's 2.7 average cost.
I know it's worse than auxiliaries, but 2 turn regular army units could be dangerous in a castle.

So after adding trebuchet to Your list of trainable units, it pretty much sums it up.

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Re: Monastery

Post by StormSaint373 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:28 pm

Is it alright, @Endru1241 , if I may try to reskin a few crusaders, AND propose a couple new ones?


That is...
Crusader Seargent
Crusader Halberdier
Crusader Crossbowman
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Endru1241
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Re: Monastery

Post by Endru1241 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:47 pm

These are current ones.
Crossbowman would be a just upgraded archer, like veteran? Then it would be fine, I think.
Instead of halbeldiers, why not spearman - crusader armies used spear as one of main infantry weapons.
And what do You have in mind by sergeant?
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32_unit_veteran_crusader.png
32_unit_veteran_crusader.png (959 Bytes) Viewed 332 times
32_unit_crusader_lord.png
32_unit_crusader_lord.png (1.29 KiB) Viewed 332 times
32_unit_crusader_horseman.png
32_unit_crusader_horseman.png (1.33 KiB) Viewed 332 times
32_unit_crusader.png
32_unit_crusader.png (883 Bytes) Viewed 332 times
32_unit_crusade_archer.png
32_unit_crusade_archer.png (1.03 KiB) Viewed 332 times
32_unit_veteran_crusader_horseman.png
32_unit_veteran_crusader_horseman.png (1.31 KiB) Viewed 332 times

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Re: Monastery

Post by StormSaint373 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:01 am

Seargent is spear and shield...
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Re: Monastery

Post by StormSaint373 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:06 am

As for Halberdier, I was thinking of the new approach to fighting cavalry. (Inspired by AoF Halberdier variants)

+1 cost to spearman
-2 to hp of swordsman counterpart
Att= Swordsman
Bonuses are 200% instead of 450% vs cavalry.
It could have 50% vs infantry melee

(Although I forget bonuses vs elephants, I suspect half for this variant)

Still has one action, and is affected by polearm techs, but geared a bit toward fighting infantry with less counter risk.
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Re: Monastery

Post by Endru1241 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:13 am

So, 3 cost, 16 hp, 8power? With vouglier bonuses +160% on mounted (21 base damage), +260% elephants (29 base), +50% melee foot (12 base).
Still wondering if fully upgraded 18 power is not too strong vs melee.

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Re: Monastery

Post by StormSaint373 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:08 am

It's enough to kill axe throwers, if 18 dmg is all, at a "supposed" tier 3, then it won't be able to kill a Swordsman of same tier. With one hit, that is.

It will cause Worry to that unit as it will deal between 2/3 (beginning) to 3/4 at a (3rd tier) of a Swordsman's health.
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Re: Monastery

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:44 am

i think the monasery image still nedds improvingimho- shading and some less cartoonish look maybe.
also i suggest it being a littel bigger like 2x2 tile sized image, now it looks a little "packed" to small size

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Re: Monastery

Post by StormSaint373 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:05 pm

So, you'd prefer 2x2 instead of 2x3?
How would I make it look less cartoonist?
• change stonework to cathedral layout perhaps?

Shading needs improvement... How can I make that happen?
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Re: Monastery

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:31 pm

sorry i can not tell you "how" :)

in size wait for Enru idea too, i suggest 3x2 with 2x2 non steppable part.

some nice images for inspiration
https://www.moddb.com/mods/oxams-archit ... renovation
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... =710070761
https://i.redd.it/0m3hptstg8w21.jpg

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