AI-beginner

[LordOfAles]

AI like easy, but has absolutely no bought upgrades.

[Puss_in_Boots]

Essentially it's just like easy. No bought upgrades. It's the exact same thing.

[Sunrise Samurai]

Maybe a variation of the ai that only uses units and upgrades you can use. If you don't have fire archers unlocked, it can't build them either.

[LordOfAles]

Easy and Hard can use unit upgrades and from shop while easy can't use unit upgrades (knight to heavy knight for example). I though beginner can't use even units from shop.

[Belfry777]

I like the sound of this! But what is the big difference between AI easy and AI beginner? Dose this mode prevent the AI from any upgrades?

[makazuwr32]

I think this means that Ai-Beginner can use only Basic units from "No upgrades" game type as players do.

[LordOfAles]

Makazuwr is correct. So what do ypu think?

[COOLguy]

This sounds like a good idea. The AI would be slaughtered always though.

[LordOfAles]

lol let the newbies have fun xD

[COOLguy]

lol

[LordOfAles]

im serious, i watched my friend getting slaughtered by easy AI cuz he set no upgrades, and ai still had them. He was like: "Hey why did you lie to me bro? This ain't easy!"

[Belfry777]

held to your own word. I am fully for this idea!

[godOfKings]

yes if the ai used ballista, battering rams or elephants, it would b enough to seal the fate of someone with no upgrades

[Ayush Tiwari]

It would be easy,to test new upgrades on them

[Belfry777]

When would this be implemented?

[LordOfAles]

We still need to hear if Daniel or COOLguy want to implement this

[Belfry777]

Yep I forgot, can't wait to kill the AI!

[Stratego (dev)]

I think this is the right thread to talk about new AI level, here was my suggestion:

i already checked how could i do it - not easy.
But the only way is to make a new AI level, like AI Ultra Easy
so will be

Ultra Easy AI
Easy AI
Hard AI


GEMS: how they would pay in campaign maps:
if Map desigher set Hard and
- player choses to Easy will get -1 gems in all levels. (0-1-3)
- player choses to Ultra Easy will get -2 gems in all levels. (0-0-2)

How Ultra Easy AI would work:

I dont want to get rid of upgrade units (that is an incentive to get all upgardes) but some other way nerfing the AI difficulty.
if anyone have any other ide how please tell me.

my first, rough alternatives
a) AI will not produce units the same rate: eg 4x production times for it.
b) AI will not produce the best units aginst player units (eg. now produces piked units against cavalries, and removing this "IQ" and making it random.)
c) AI injured units already do not attack but becomes "frozen" on their tiles at approx 60% of max HP, i can increase this to 80% instead
d) AI units with minimal injuries will move them half distance they can walk rounded up (eg. a chariot will walk 2 instead of 4, a knight will move 3 instead of 5)
e) more of you think there should be option to turn off upgrade usage by AI, so lets list it as an option.

-----------------
Also i started implementing and collected these informations how currently works:
AI hard:
UPGRADE_TECHS, // invents upgrades for the units (eg. heavy knigt for knights)
PROP_CHG_TECHS, // invents propery changer techs that affect this unit (eg. blacksmith techs)
GRANT_THE_ALL_TECHS, // on game create the AI player will get the default "all techs"
USE_UPGRADE_UNITS, //if given than it will train units that needs to be bought in upgrades section.

AI Easy:
USE_UPGRADE_UNITS
(nothing else from above)

(coming) AI Ultra Easy:
? (maybe none of above)

[makazuwr32]

i must admit that this difference is noticable even more in aof.
For example elven ai is able to build glade wardens HQ and all glade wardens' units.

So i think it is better to restrict ultra easy ai down to basic units (but no additional penalties for them alas).

[Stratego (dev)]

ok, now i have changed several things in core and we have now (only for testing reasons)
- Hard AI (i hope is untouched - but need testing)
- Easy AI - emporarily i have revoked from here the "upgrades" producing - it will not produce shopitem units. please test it
(i have yet introduced ultra easy AI, and i have yet made campaign difiiculty modifiable - so now it is only testable in skirmish maps with easy and hard AI)

uos 20 in AOS.

[Endru1241]

From what I see in skirmish it seems to work - AI easy didn't produce anything out of spearmen, swordsman, archers, skirmishers, knights.
They build only barracks and guard towers.
When starting techs are set as all techs, they also produced peasants.

[Stratego (dev)]

good!

what about not introducing new AI level but keeping this current setting HardAI and EasyAI(without upgrades)?
because i received compaints about easy AI is not easier at all than hard AI (so practically the same) - maybe this could be the first difference between them

[Endru1241]

I agree.
That one feels like easy, but not really beginner level.

For beginner I think some more is needed - maybe random production and 50-60% hp frozen state.

[godOfKings]

alright, AOS shall usher in a new golden age from now

(and its not like new players will never see any upgrade unit, if map creator gives upgrade unit himself then the players will have to face them even in easy difficulty)

[makazuwr32]

I suggest to make same change for aof "Ai-Easy" as well.
It would allow to make some maps a bit easier.

[Stratego (dev)]

yes it is in core so all alternatives will work the same.

[Stratego (dev)]

ok i made easy ai to have AI_SILLY_MOVEMENT option:
meanin all movements it does with units will be halved rounded up.

[Stratego (dev)]

are we ok here? or is there any change still neded?

[Endru1241]

If we are making it really easy, then one thing is left - ranged units and towers. On map where only those exist easy AI doesn't change much.
If movement got halved, then maybe range should be limited too. Maybe 20-30%, so throwers got 3->2, archer 5->4, catapults 7->5, trebuchets 10->7 or something.

[Stratego (dev)]

imho: ok, but i feel that is too much, and no such map where only archers are, or must be very - very rare.