AI-beginner

Suggestions about the gameplay, the controls, buttons and so on.

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LordOfAles
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AI-beginner

Post by LordOfAles » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:44 pm

AI like easy, but has absolutely no bought upgrades.
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Puss_in_Boots
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:46 pm

Essentially it's just like easy. No bought upgrades. It's the exact same thing.
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Sunrise Samurai
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:24 pm

Maybe a variation of the ai that only uses units and upgrades you can use. If you don't have fire archers unlocked, it can't build them either.
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LordOfAles
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by LordOfAles » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:33 am

Easy and Hard can use unit upgrades and from shop while easy can't use unit upgrades (knight to heavy knight for example). I though beginner can't use even units from shop.
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Belfry777
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by Belfry777 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:41 am

I like the sound of this! But what is the big difference between AI easy and AI beginner? Dose this mode prevent the AI from any upgrades?
A thousand may fall at your side,
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makazuwr32
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by makazuwr32 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:30 am

I think this means that Ai-Beginner can use only Basic units from "No upgrades" game type as players do.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
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LordOfAles
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by LordOfAles » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:32 pm

Makazuwr is correct. So what do ypu think?
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COOLguy
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by COOLguy » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:44 pm

This sounds like a good idea. The AI would be slaughtered always though.
Thanks!
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LordOfAles
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by LordOfAles » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:45 pm

lol let the newbies have fun xD
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by COOLguy » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:45 pm

lol
Thanks!
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LordOfAles
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by LordOfAles » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:47 pm

im serious, i watched my friend getting slaughtered by easy AI cuz he set no upgrades, and ai still had them. He was like: "Hey why did you lie to me bro? This ain't easy!"
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Belfry777
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by Belfry777 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:27 am

held to your own word. I am fully for this idea!
A thousand may fall at your side,
And ten thousand at your right hand;
But it shall not come near you.
Only with your eyes shall you look,
And see the reward of the wicked.

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godOfKings
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by godOfKings » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:01 pm

yes if the ai used ballista, battering rams or elephants, it would b enough to seal the fate of someone with no upgrades
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For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

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Re: AI-beginner

Post by Ayush Tiwari » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:28 pm

It would be easy,to test new upgrades on them :)
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Belfry777
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by Belfry777 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:47 pm

When would this be implemented?
A thousand may fall at your side,
And ten thousand at your right hand;
But it shall not come near you.
Only with your eyes shall you look,
And see the reward of the wicked.

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LordOfAles
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by LordOfAles » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:24 pm

We still need to hear if Daniel or COOLguy want to implement this
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Belfry777
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by Belfry777 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:22 pm

Yep I forgot, can't wait to kill the AI!
A thousand may fall at your side,
And ten thousand at your right hand;
But it shall not come near you.
Only with your eyes shall you look,
And see the reward of the wicked.

Stratego (dev)
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by Stratego (dev) » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:19 pm

I think this is the right thread to talk about new AI level, here was my suggestion:

i already checked how could i do it - not easy.
But the only way is to make a new AI level, like AI Ultra Easy
so will be

Ultra Easy AI
Easy AI
Hard AI


GEMS: how they would pay in campaign maps:
if Map desigher set Hard and
- player choses to Easy will get -1 gems in all levels. (0-1-3)
- player choses to Ultra Easy will get -2 gems in all levels. (0-0-2)

How Ultra Easy AI would work:

I dont want to get rid of upgrade units (that is an incentive to get all upgardes) but some other way nerfing the AI difficulty.
if anyone have any other ide how please tell me.

my first, rough alternatives
a) AI will not produce units the same rate: eg 4x production times for it.
b) AI will not produce the best units aginst player units (eg. now produces piked units against cavalries, and removing this "IQ" and making it random.)
c) AI injured units already do not attack but becomes "frozen" on their tiles at approx 60% of max HP, i can increase this to 80% instead
d) AI units with minimal injuries will move them half distance they can walk rounded up (eg. a chariot will walk 2 instead of 4, a knight will move 3 instead of 5)
e) more of you think there should be option to turn off upgrade usage by AI, so lets list it as an option.

-----------------
Also i started implementing and collected these informations how currently works:
AI hard:
UPGRADE_TECHS, // invents upgrades for the units (eg. heavy knigt for knights)
PROP_CHG_TECHS, // invents propery changer techs that affect this unit (eg. blacksmith techs)
GRANT_THE_ALL_TECHS, // on game create the AI player will get the default "all techs"
USE_UPGRADE_UNITS, //if given than it will train units that needs to be bought in upgrades section.

AI Easy:
USE_UPGRADE_UNITS
(nothing else from above)

(coming) AI Ultra Easy:
? (maybe none of above)

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makazuwr32
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:18 pm

i must admit that this difference is noticable even more in aof.
For example elven ai is able to build glade wardens HQ and all glade wardens' units.

So i think it is better to restrict ultra easy ai down to basic units (but no additional penalties for them alas).
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

Stratego (dev)
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by Stratego (dev) » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:28 pm

ok, now i have changed several things in core and we have now (only for testing reasons)
- Hard AI (i hope is untouched - but need testing)
- Easy AI - emporarily i have revoked from here the "upgrades" producing - it will not produce shopitem units. please test it
(i have yet introduced ultra easy AI, and i have yet made campaign difiiculty modifiable - so now it is only testable in skirmish maps with easy and hard AI)

uos 20 in AOS.

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Endru1241
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by Endru1241 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:06 am

From what I see in skirmish it seems to work - AI easy didn't produce anything out of spearmen, swordsman, archers, skirmishers, knights.
They build only barracks and guard towers.
When starting techs are set as all techs, they also produced peasants.

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Re: AI-beginner

Post by Stratego (dev) » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:18 am

good!

what about not introducing new AI level but keeping this current setting HardAI and EasyAI(without upgrades)?
because i received compaints about easy AI is not easier at all than hard AI (so practically the same) - maybe this could be the first difference between them

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Endru1241
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by Endru1241 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:39 am

I agree.
That one feels like easy, but not really beginner level.

For beginner I think some more is needed - maybe random production and 50-60% hp frozen state.

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godOfKings
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by godOfKings » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:13 am

alright, AOS shall usher in a new golden age from now :D

(and its not like new players will never see any upgrade unit, if map creator gives upgrade unit himself then the players will have to face them even in easy difficulty)
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

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makazuwr32
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by makazuwr32 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:56 am

I suggest to make same change for aof "Ai-Easy" as well.
It would allow to make some maps a bit easier.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

Stratego (dev)
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by Stratego (dev) » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:10 pm

yes it is in core so all alternatives will work the same.

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Re: AI-beginner

Post by Stratego (dev) » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:21 pm

ok i made easy ai to have AI_SILLY_MOVEMENT option:
meanin all movements it does with units will be halved rounded up.

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Re: AI-beginner

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:39 am

are we ok here? or is there any change still neded?

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Endru1241
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Re: AI-beginner

Post by Endru1241 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:54 pm

If we are making it really easy, then one thing is left - ranged units and towers. On map where only those exist easy AI doesn't change much.
If movement got halved, then maybe range should be limited too. Maybe 20-30%, so throwers got 3->2, archer 5->4, catapults 7->5, trebuchets 10->7 or something.

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Re: AI-beginner

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:32 pm

imho: ok, but i feel that is too much, and no such map where only archers are, or must be very - very rare.

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