Longer poles

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StormSaint373
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Longer poles

Post by StormSaint373 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:22 pm

Lengthened poles...
Research at advancement center

Cost: 6-10 turns
Give +1 range to polearmed units (pikeman, volguier, Halberdier, Svardstavier,)
Beware the calm before the Tempest. . .

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Gral.Sturnn
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Re: Longer poles

Post by Gral.Sturnn » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:00 pm

remember when i proposed a 2 reach pike unit, didnt end up well.

Nevertheless I think that a research with that cost makes it more balanced
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Puss_in_Boots
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Re: Longer poles

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:08 pm

That's what reach was supposed to do, but since AoS doesn't follow the same unit structure as AoF we can't add 2 ranged polearms.
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Endru1241
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Re: Longer poles

Post by Endru1241 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:32 pm

I would actually back this idea if not for one fact - halbeldier is slaughterer of cavalry (just as h.lancer) - he has too high bonus - any little power boost gives 6 more damage. He doesn't need any offensive boost.

Besides current pikeman looks more like a spearman, assuming each tile represents 5m - it fits elephants, it's well beyond the reach of many shorter pikes, not even talking about spear, halberd or voulge (swordstaff).

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StormSaint373
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Re: Longer poles

Post by StormSaint373 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:41 am

So, do you recommend bonuses be lowered for halberd from 450% to 225%
Beware the calm before the Tempest. . .

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Endru1241
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Re: Longer poles

Post by Endru1241 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:08 am

To 200% - easier to calculate (Voulge could get 100%). But these units would get defensive capabilities instead
Pikeman could have much lower +mounted bonus, but transformation (let's name it burying pike).
In transformed state he would have current bonus + power, first strike and full counter abilities (deals damage first when attacked and deals full damage), but no move points. He would need to waste a turn to move, but no mounted unit would attack him (unless ready to take at least half hp damage).
And die in enemy turn.
With the same ability voulgier would be much better tactically, as he have 2 actions (1 to transform, the second to move and attack)

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StormSaint373
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Re: Longer poles

Post by StormSaint373 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:17 pm

So, they have to transform into a stationary position to get +1 range?

I was thinking just as a passive upgrade...
Beware the calm before the Tempest. . .

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Gral.Sturnn
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Re: Longer poles

Post by Gral.Sturnn » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:20 pm

Lets be fair doomsday, such a thing would be hardly accpeted, unless we can find another way around it
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Endru1241
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Re: Longer poles

Post by Endru1241 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:30 pm

StormSaint373 wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:17 pm
So, they have to transform into a stationary position to get +1 range?

I was thinking just as a passive upgrade...
Not exactly.
I believe, that with current bonuses vs mounted and mobility +range is immensely powerful. Too powerful.
Although if somehow nerfed on the attacking side (like mine example) they could have 2 range.
In my example they could have 2 range In if in both states, because in attacking (normal) they have lower damage and in defensive they have no mobility.

But after thinking about realism and balance - even after some changes I would save 2 ranged anti-cavalry attacks for new unit. E.g. renaming pikeman to spearman and adding pikeman as 3 turns unit (or 3rd upgrade) with a pike like in AoF pike units - overlapping to 2nd tile making it look like something with length of 4-6 meters.

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SirPat
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Re: Longer poles

Post by SirPat » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:13 pm

Endru1241 wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:30 pm
But after thinking about realism and balance - even after some changes I would save 2 ranged anti-cavalry attacks for new unit. E.g. renaming pikeman to spearman and adding pikeman as 3 turns unit (or 3rd upgrade) with a pike like in AoF pike units - overlapping to 2nd tile making it look like something with length of 4-6 meters.
This makes more sense honestly when i first downloaded AoS i was confused with these pikemen I was like aren't pike's like spears in steroids but why do these ones look like spears
I think it eould be better to rename pikeman to spearman and make the pikeman a different unit
To make their upgrading to make sense
Cause If it was:
Spear ---> halberd ---> pike
It would be odd cause you've put an axe blade on a spear then you decided to remove the blade and just make the pole longer

So 3-turn unit sounds better for me
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