Hospitaller Halberdier IMPLEMENTED

[StormSaint373]

What do you think about this?

Hospitaller Halberdier and upg

Build: TC, Monastery, Church/Cathedral, (Is Priory an option for Templars and Hospitallers?)
Cost: 5
Hp: 30/34
Att: 10/12
Spd: 3
Armor: 2/1, 3/2
Vision: 5
Action/Turn: 1
SR: 100%
Heal Rate: 7/10

Classification: Hvy Infantry foot, Polearm wielder, Anti cav,
Bonuses: 150% vs cavalry, 200% vs elephants

[SirPat]

It looks epic but I dont know wouldnt that make Crusader Halberdiers less useful or in just some occasions

[Squirrel5555]

I know that there are size constraints, but it looks like he is gripping the halberd very high up, could you readjust this?

[StormSaint373]

Better?

[Squirrel5555]

Nice!

[StormSaint373]

What do you think, @@Endru1241

[Endru1241]

The concept itself is great - hospitallers have only one unit type, so addition is welcomed; both anti-heavy and foot anti-cavalry are lacking among religious.
Although I am not sure about the stats - as hospitallers, at least one of thier units should have hightened heal rate and I wonder about the balance of such hybrid.
I mean what's exactly the counter for him?
It should be carefully considered.

[StormSaint373]

Archers are a counter to such units, so I lowered Pierce armor to that of their Archer counterpart.

I do notice that the Hybrid pole units are especially vulnerable to arrows and bolts especially.

[Endru1241]

So medium infantry/pole wielder category?
This way on the other hand they would get additional damage from heavy infantry. Would that be ok?
Maybe just skip bonus vs heavy (crissbowman has some, so it's not that important), armor to 3/1->4/2 raise attack +1/2, lower mounted bonus to give the same total and remove bonus vs heavy?
That way it would be first heavy anti-cavalry.
They would be worse than other heavies because of lacking bonuses, but still solid defenders.
Just an idea - not really convinced myself.

[StormSaint373]

I follow on most concepts.

As opposed to the normal Templar, I think they'd have similar armor... Ofc, I can see changes in relation to arrow vulnerability.
As for attack, did you mean +1 or +2, or did you mean + half the attack... Amounting to higher att?
Reason I stated heavy, was because I was taking into account who would be good against him.

A legionarre would have a hard time vs him due to his armor splitting halberd, whereas an anti heavy unit (such as a Crossbowman) would make short work of him by overcoming his decent armor. However, due to stats alone, heavy Infantry would still be effective without rendering him useless when a legionarre or foot knight comes, hence... Only why he received a small bonus

Haven't made any changes yet...

BTW, is there different bonuses vs elephants? Due to their really high hp count?

[Endru1241]

I meant +1 or +2 attack.
Bonus to elephants - I always try to follow spearman or vouglier total damage relation vs elephants to vs other mounted without counting blacksmith. So in vouglier case it's 14 to 9, so about 1.56. applying it to 9 base attack -> to achieve 24 damage to mounted +167%, 24*1.66(6)=40, so +344% vs elephants. It can be rounded to look better - 170% and 350%.

[StormSaint373]

Added +2 att
Bonuses: 170 vs cav, 350 vs elephants, 50 vs hvy Infantry

Can he still be heavy, what do you think?

[Endru1241]

170% and 350% was for 9 power and assuming the bonus vs heavy was skipped or lowered to max +25%.
For 10 it would be +140% vs mounted and +300% vs elephants and absolutely no bonus vs heavy.

If You're dead set on bonus vs heavy infantry - then it's better with 8 power.
In such case bonuses would be +200% vs mounted and +400% vs elephants.

Also to make it clear - If I won't forget, I'm gonna add zweihander much bigger bonus vs units, that are both heavy infantry and polearm wielders (and halfway to that - medium infantry and polearm wielders).
Hospitaller halbeldier just has to have any other counter than anti-heavy.

[StormSaint373]

Zweihander is considered Polearm wielder?
Alright, I'll remove bonus vs heavy. . .

Do you want this hospitaller Halberdier to be medium or heavy.

How low of bonuses are we working with? Remember, he's a cost 5 anti cav.
I don't recommend lower bonuses as he has only 1 attack, not 2.

Removed anti hvy bonuses
Also lowered anti cav bonuses. . .

The basic stats should be better than that of their crusader counterparts, cost considered...

[StormSaint373]

Anything else, @Endru1241 ?

I hope that this is adequate changes...

[StormSaint373]

What do you think, @Stratego (dev) ?

Seems a bit off, but I can't place it...

[StormSaint373]

Any luck on this?

Maybe he should have bonuses similar to volguier?

As opposed to that unit... He gave up a 2nd action for more dmg on 1st attack (so as to prevent overbalance with healing)

Or is it good? @Endru1241

[Endru1241]

He's in the pack already.
I decided to make his stats a little different along with templar change.
Lower hp, higher armor. Lower power, bonus vs heavies.

[StormSaint373]

Lower hp? . . . not sure I like that.

How much less hp?
How much more armor?

[Endru1241]

Hp 24, armor 4/2, power 8, heal 9. Upgrade - hp 29, armor 6/3, power 10, heal 13.
Bonuses: +30% to heavy infantry, +250% to heavy cavalry, +315% to elephants, +200% to other mounted.
It has to be noted, that he'll be affected by reach.
Meanwhile templar would have the same hpand normal armor, but +1 pierce.

[StormSaint373]

Oh... Whew.

Thought it would be much wprse than it is. Whilst I'll miss the hp, it seems still very workable.

I thank you for letting me know, and I am excited to see them in action.