Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

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StormSaint373
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Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

Post by StormSaint373 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:18 pm

Guardian (upgrade to 3rd tier of shielder)

Cost: 2
Hp: 26
Att: 12
Range: 1
Armor: 5/7
Speed: 2
Vision: 4
Action/Turn: 1

Same bonuses as shielder/defender
Last edited by StormSaint373 on Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Lynx Shafir
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Re: Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

Post by Lynx Shafir » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:33 am

1.Shieder is a 2 cost unit!

2.That armor n hp is too high for that cost - also gets blacksmith

As for an elite defender unit I think I proposed stg.

Wud need some mechanics
-(auto)attack on enemy turn - (ability proposed for aoww)
-guard - takes dmg instead of selected unit
-first strike (we have this one)
Last edited by Lynx Shafir on Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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StormSaint373
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Re: Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

Post by StormSaint373 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:25 pm

Well, that's following the same upgrade pattern as previous 2.

Besides, tis an upgrade.

So like an extra 6-8 turns to research.
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godOfKings
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Re: Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

Post by godOfKings » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:26 pm

If it gets 3rd tier upgrade I would reduce base HP of defender to +4 (22 hp),

So this would have 26 hp

Also armor is actually
1/5
3/6
5/7
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StormSaint373
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Re: Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

Post by StormSaint373 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:34 pm

Didn't know p. Armor went up by 1 only...

Edited.
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godOfKings
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Re: Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

Post by godOfKings » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:39 pm

Reduce cost to 2 too
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StormSaint373
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Re: Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

Post by StormSaint373 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:58 pm

Oops
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Puss_in_Boots
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Defender -> Tower/ Vanguard

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:43 pm

Instead of using kite shields, tower uses a tower shield, and can move latitudaly and longitudinaly across the entire chess board but not diagonally. ;)

Of course, the name "tower" would be confusing, I plan to name this unit "Vanguard," and at third stage they will be able to block more blows to the legs with their tower shields.

Stat change from Defender

+2 hp, armor, pierce

I read that vanguards were typically the leading force of the army that fights first, so I'm wondering about giving it +1 speed.
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godOfKings
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Re: Defender -> Tower/ Vanguard

Post by godOfKings » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:10 pm

Actually I planned to keep the knight vanguard name for heavy shield knight upgrade, but defender can also keep vanguard name, or heavy defender can work

I guess vanguard name can also work as the first line of soldiers in formation defending against charging enemies so vanguard for footman, while knight vanguard for charging heavy shield cavalry is the best choice
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Endru1241
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Re: Defender -> Tower/ Vanguard

Post by Endru1241 » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:00 pm

Defender fills completely different role than vanguard - it protects position, not advances.
In the original Defender upgrade topic there was already proposition for 2nd upgrade with name - Guardian.
I think it fits much better.

But there is still much more important question - does defender need upgrade?
Let's look at stats of similar infantry - swordsmen
Swordsman/Broad Swordsman/Man-at-arms shielder/defender
HP 18 / 21 / 23 18 / 24
power 8 / 11 / 14 6 / 9
armor 0 / 0 / 1 1 / 3
p.armor 0 / 0 / 0 5 / 6

Shielder gets +6hp, +3 power and +2/1 armors - it's similar to what swordsman gets in two upgrades!

26 hp, 9 power, 5/8 armor is stronger than 4 turns foot knight (22 hp, 10 power, 4/3 armor) even with slower speed it's not good.

If we add tower shield "Guardian" we could make Defender stats hp 21, power 8, 2/5 armor and change upgrade time to 3 turns.
It would be similar to adding guisarmeman and Lancer upgrade (but with them there was also image and name change).

Recently I toned down most powerful units (for their cost), so there is no need to make any new one balanced to old stats.

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Puss_in_Boots
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Re: Defender -> Tower/ Vanguard

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:38 pm

Oh, never remembered such topic, it'd be best to merge them for simplicity's sake.

I'll provide the link: https://www.androidutils.com/forum/view ... 3d2#p83090
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Endru1241
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Re: Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

Post by Endru1241 » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:49 pm

Merged.

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Puss_in_Boots
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Re: Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:59 pm

So it seems the most I can do here is draw image.
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godOfKings
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Re: Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

Post by godOfKings » Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:08 am

we can nerf defender stats

hp 22 (+4 from 18)
armor 2/6

then guardian would b

hp 26
armor 3/7
atk 12

(physical armor remains same, but p.armor and hp increases a bit along with damage)

we could also make swordsman upgrade increase +4 damage instead of 3, then basic 8 ->12 ->16 power
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Endru1241
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Re: Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

Post by Endru1241 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:38 am

That could work.
But instead of increasing both swordsman and shielder upgrades power, why not do just 6/8/10.
Reminder: I added them Full Counter ability in the last update (2x counterattack damage in the new way of counter damage calculation).

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godOfKings
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Re: Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

Post by godOfKings » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:12 am

Alright, now wat about image, same as man at arms with orange helm?
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

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Endru1241
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Re: Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

Post by Endru1241 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:42 pm

I think shield shape change would be nice, as puss suggested.
Maybe a little more armor.
My proposition:
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Puss_in_Boots
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Re: Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:15 pm

Great color scheme. I had in mind a tower shield, which should be tall and rectangular.
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Endru1241
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Re: Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

Post by Endru1241 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:18 pm

Tried to make shield a little thicker.
Plus some other small adjustments.
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Puss_in_Boots
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Re: Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:30 pm

Excellent, I wasn't sure about the chest I drew on, but yeah you fixed it. :D
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godOfKings
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Re: Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

Post by godOfKings » Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:56 am

so final stats:
hp 26
armor 3/7
power 10

and defender nerf:
hp 22
armor 2/6
power 8
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

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Morningwarrior
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Re: Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

Post by Morningwarrior » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:58 am

the hp should be 27 to 30, because the difference between tier 2 and tier 3 from 2 from 24 to 26 is very little and the damage could be at maximum 11, this unit is more focused on enduring damage than causing
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makazuwr32
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Re: Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:10 am

The thing is that they nerf tier 2 shielder.

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StormSaint373
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Re: Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

Post by StormSaint373 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:47 am

Kinda like the first guardian shield design best, the rectangular one reminds me too much of Roman Legionnaire.
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godOfKings
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Re: Guardian (tier 3 shielder)

Post by godOfKings » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:22 pm

I kind of agree here, it looks too much like the praetorian, best to keep the shield design same as older tiers to keep consistency, its not like guardian has any relation with towering shields that changing shield design should b a must...
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

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