Zweihander - IMPLEMENTED

[balint]

this was the first or second of my ideas.

Ihave 2 variants:

a, it can be upgraded from (broad)swordsman.

b, It is a whole new unit

stats compared to swordsman:

twice as much attack, 3-5 armor, 15 hp, 50%spell resistance, 2 movement

[Dgkfadomo777]

Good but how about it takes more damage, since it has no shield.

[ejm29]

I like an idea. I was thinking, double attack, light armor, no pierce armor, 4 move. about 5-8 cost. And all ranged units get a 200% bonus against him (no shield and his sword will slow him down) just my first thought.

[balint]

in my idea he has a heavy plate armor, and uses a claymore.
that is why it would be slower..



your idea would be good for a light infantry type, which might be good!

[poeticquestion]

I dont know if anyone mentioned this, but this is my suggestion. Zweihanders were german lethal two-handed swordsmen whose job was to charge in and break the enemy stride.
I think this unit should have decent mobility, high attack, with bonuses against spear, calvalry, and swordsmen type units. Weaknesses are range type units because they lack a shield to protect themselves.

[balint]

I mentiomed a two handed swordsman before. but I still like the idea.

[poeticquestion]

Maybe the 2 handed unit could be named zweihander then? Im glad someone at least brought it up.

[Stratego (dev)]

nice idea!
everyone: we need stats and image and votes to be in a release! thanks!

[Stratego (dev)]

(+ i love patroid's avatar, so this, or some other unit should be like that i think.)

[balint]

Actually, the word zweihander means something like the Englis two handed. but I agree it sounds cool

Daniel: Two handed swords sich like the claymore are really long vompared to other sword, and they were not neccesaerily used to cit down someone. There are several writings, that they was used these ways too:
The kinght graps the blade and hits the other with the grip,
The konght grabs the blade with one hand, and use it like a small spear->thrusfing attacks.

[Alexander82]

The soldiers that used the zweihander were called Landsknecht and were mercenaries

[balint]

yes. I know
but this unit should have a ,,magic'':
-strong trust: deals piercing damage
-grip hit: has a small chance to put a disarmor effect on the enemy (maybe -1 armor) ot if enemy has no armor then it has a stun chance.

[Alexander82]

they used their sword to cut pikes, so they might have an ability that lower enemy attack

[balint]

the zweihander is hard use against pikes. a trained pikeman can kill him easily, because the sword is quite heavy.

by the way, pikes and spears are very sturdy and swords weren't quite sharp. so it is not avaiable to cut a pike in two.

[Alexander82]

From Wikipedia
in addition to the pike as more recent recruits, they could also be alternatively employed wielding a 6-to-8-foot-long (1.8 to 2.4 m) halberd or partisan, or, more famously, a Zweihänder (literally: "Two-hander"), a two-handed sword as long as 180 cm (6 ft).[8] These great war swords could be used to hack off the heads of enemy pikes; or more likely to knock the pikes aside, creating disorder among the tightly-arranged enemy pikemen in order to break through their lines.

[balint]

yes, but the wikipedia is not the greatest sourse of information.
I agree that it was possible to knock away pikes, but I held both in my hand, and it is not too easy to wield a two handed sword. cause it weights about 4+ kg. And pikes, depending on their type can be 5 cm thick. and that is solid wood.
zweihanders was not sharp. Their weight was used to crush trough blocking and to deal damage, whicb cause great pain. And this 5 kg mass of steel was not able to cut trough plate armor. their end was used to trust trough the weak points of the armor (knee,shoulder...). For that they grabbed the blade of the sword.

sorry for long post, hope it was helpful.

[Alexander82]

I know that a two handed sword is heavy and bulk, not razor sharp and that kind of stuff, but i'm pretty sure i studied in books that these soldiers used also that strategy to break enemy pikes (in a war with a massive army not every weapon is a masterpiece after all) and i'm pretty sure that the weight helped them in their duty (and they were well trained in using them).

Anyway i'm not going to start a flame, i just wanted to state that i'm pretty sure about the use of this tactic.

P.S. as far as i know the best way to fight a plate armor was by using maces or axes that can apply a stronger pressure and break or bend the plate metal

[balint]

yes, you are right. They used this tactic, well it might be useful, because they knock away the pike and deal damage to the pike itself.

plate armor: yes, maces and flails are the best way to destroy a plate armor. Axes, (depend on which kind): a battleaxe: one handed, smaller. can't break it. but ot can cut down your hand in 1 piece. bigger axes which were used with 2 hands might cause serious damage to the armor, but they might slip off depending on the power of the strike, the weather...

[Alexander82]

Yeah, the issue is strenght versus precision, anyway Landsknecht used a certain variety of weapons, they might be a good inspiration for a unit pack of mercenaries

[Hardeep]

A german greatswordsman wielding 2 handed zweihander
They should look flamboyant (fancy dress but armoured)
Cost 4
Attack 13
Area damage 1
Hp 22
Armour: 1/1
Sight 4
Speed 3
Conversion resist 100%
Affected by blacksmith upgrades
Bonus against archers and infantry
Only trainable in castles


May be underpowered for a castle unit but idk, what do you guys think

[DoomCarrot]

This idea is already in the forums. However, I like the concept. I think it will not be underpowered if it has blacksmith upgrades, but then again, I am not liking the complicated "this unit is affected, this unit is not" that is going on with the blacksmith currently, so I kind of lean towards giving everything upgrades.

[Hardeep]

That post is old
They never talked stats or anything relevant, so why bother with it.
The one discussion was about pikes but with this attack he kills on in one hit anyways
But a pike can get a bonus on him, since it must attack first to actually get a hit off, we can assume he charges the guy and sticks him good before he is ready

[COOLguy]

Can I have a link to merge?

[COOLguy]

(merged)

[samuelch]

My first try for zweihander.

[Hardeep]

They didnt have shields. So you have to have both hands on the sword, maybe pointing diagonal to the left

[samuelch]

How about now?

[DoomCarrot]

Good concept. The head is a little small and blocky looking, and there is much shading that must be done, but it is a good start.

[Disco]

I like it samuel
Although the sword and armour is a very similar colour (maybe same). Maybe you change em up a little..

[samuelch]

New color for the zweihander.