Lasiq Assassin IMPLEMENTED

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Hyuhjhih
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Lasiq Assassin IMPLEMENTED

Post by Hyuhjhih »

Dashing Assassin.
The weakest but proudest members of Assassin group.
HISTORY
Formed along with assasins or selected among them in the 10th century and lived in Syrian or Persian mountains. They were often used as Elite warriors who mastered in anti artillery attacks or used as a kamikaze attack against archer hordes. They were mostly trained at Alamut Castle (Persian Assassins) or Masyaf Castle (Syrian Assassins)
FEATURES
  • they lacked well maintained body structure.
  • they wore a hard Armour made of animal skin.
  • they were extremely talented in dodging arrows
  • their mode of attack was stabbing archers while sprinting
  • They were vulnerable to shielded soldiers and Cavalry since they carried normal knifes or daggers which was incapable for penetration as well as reaching
    heights
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Re: Dashing Assassin

Post by Hyuhjhih »

In short
They are anti Archer units
They have high movement speed
They have high pierce Armour
Weak against Cavalry and shielded infantry.
Trained at castles
Low cost
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Re: Dashing Assassin

Post by Hyuhjhih »

BASIC UNIT STATS
Cost 1 #they are easily trained and dont need well trained body
HP 10 #they are easily executed by Cavalry and medium infantry
Attack 3 # they can do much to infantry and Cavalry
Armour 1/6 #provided hard Armour and easily dodge arrows
Speed 6 #they are quite fast as they are called and need speed to dodge arrows
Resistance 100 #they are well determined assasins who kept revengeful mind
BONUSES
+400% archers
+450% siege


Is it enough?
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Re: Dashing Assassin

Post by Endru1241 »

It's much too much.
Best as fast tc occupier.
Even if this unit was made to not be able to occupy tcs - it's still very good tc defender and with outrageous speed at that.
It would be also superior to light cavalry (same speed, but close to immunity vs arrows).
Even if speed was reduced to skirmisher level (4 speed) - that are skirmisher elite defensive stats and attack against archers is 1.5 times better (but lacks range).
But melee attack would also make it best anti-skirmisher unit.
One of the few weaknesses - convertion - is mitigated greatly thanks for mental reeistance.
Anti-siege bonus makes one-shotting ballistae and unupgraded catapultae a thing, removing another weakness additionally.
And finally - cost. 1 cost is the level of peasants - around 5 hp, around 4 power, speed 3 and no armor. Weak specialisations ( e.g. giving at most few more damage points vs very specific units). Or scouts - 6 hp and only moderate p.armor with close to no attack (2 power).
Even with speed reduced to 4 and lowered bonus vs siege (to not one-shot) to be balanced this unit would have to be cost 3. Maybe cost 2 if bonuses were further decreased.
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Re: Dashing Assassin

Post by Hyuhjhih »

Endru1241 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:20 am It's much too much.
Best as fast tc occupier.
Even if this unit was made to not be able to occupy tcs - it's still very good tc defender and with outrageous speed at that.
It would be also superior to light cavalry (same speed, but close to immunity vs arrows).
Even if speed was reduced to skirmisher level (4 speed) - that are skirmisher elite defensive stats and attack against archers is 1.5 times better (but lacks range).
But melee attack would also make it best anti-skirmisher unit.
One of the few weaknesses - convertion - is mitigated greatly thanks for mental reeistance.
Anti-siege bonus makes one-shotting ballistae and unupgraded catapultae a thing, removing another weakness additionally.
And finally - cost. 1 cost is the level of peasants - around 5 hp, around 4 power, speed 3 and no armor. Weak specialisations ( e.g. giving at most few more damage points vs very specific units). Or scouts - 6 hp and only moderate p.armor with close to no attack (2 power).
Even with speed reduced to 4 and lowered bonus vs siege (to not one-shot) to be balanced this unit would have to be cost 3. Maybe cost 2 if bonuses were further decreased.
But it is trained at castles or monasteries making it a normal substitute for disband Knight. Cost 2 is ok against archers(2). But players will go for disband Knight for anti Archer and Siege. May be the attack can be reduced 3=>2 . So Archer bonus dont exceeds a double hit to Skirmisher upgrades as well as cost 3+ archers. And also Siege bonus.

The speed ,anti Archer or Siege is the main points along with mental resistance as they are in history.

Maybe the stats can be further depressed.
I got a better sight in this troops. So
Waiting for your response @Endru1241
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Re: Dashing Assassin

Post by Endru1241 »

Disband knight is a mercenary - it disappears after meager 2 turns, so it shouldn't be compared to regular units without vanishing.

About speed - on a strategical scale the fastest units were those the least burdened by supplies - often mounted units and various scouting/skirmishing. The latter were often gettimg food by themselfes.
On a tactical scale - fastest were only mounted units.
So I don't believe a unit made of some foot soldiers, not even experienced/trained in much survival skills would achieve good speed on any of possible views at army.
And even if something is known in history - it doesn't indicate in-game representation has to have all the points. Balance is more important.
So either - they are getting light cavalry movement with all bad points (slowing downin forests and some difficult terrain) and graphical representation being mounted or speed of skirmishers at max if being made as foot units.

Attack and bonuses - I'd rather increase power to 4 or 5 and decrese bonuses - it's weak enough against armored units. I am not saying to remove anti-siege specialty completely, but everyting has to be balanced to the cost.
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Re: Dashing Assassin

Post by Hyuhjhih »

NEW STATS
Cost 1
Hp 5 # they are weak and often used as kamikaze attacks
Attack 3
Armour 1/6
Speed 5 # eventhough they sprint into enemies, due to Armour weight 6=>5
Resistance 100% # they are revenging and have quite determinism
BONUSES
400% against archers
450% against siege




How is it now
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Re: Dashing Assassin

Post by Endru1241 »

With such armor values, even with only 5 hp it can survive 4 archer attacks - even fully upgraded.
That alone disqualifies it as 1 turn unit.
1 turn unit has to be only emergency (well or non-combat scouts) easlily killed by any unit and not able to deal much damage to any unit.
It has to be 2+ turn.

E.g.
Cost 2
Hp: 10
Armor: 2/6
Speed: 4 (movement bonuses like skirmisher)
Mental resistance: 100%
Attack power: 5
Bonuses: +200% vs ranged, healers, siege, +300% vs mounted ranged
Categories: Melee, Foot, Agile, anti-ranged, anti-siege
Trainable: castle (and potential other mega buildings except monastery and harbour)
Could be affected by sword mastery and tight fabric.

That way it's ranged units killer with capability to damage most siege machines and outright destroy weaker ones (ballistae), while any fully upgraded melee unit one-shots it.
It's also especially weak against scout dogs.
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Re: Dashing Assassin

Post by Hyuhjhih »

Well trying to boost it for better cost.


Cost 2
Hp: 12
Armor: 1/6 (survive 3 hit from most Archers like defender)
Speed: 5(movement greater than normal infantry)
Mental resistance: 100% ( said it earlier cannot be compromised with its revengeful history)
Attack power: 5=>3 (mainly for anti Archer rather than anti ranged cause Skirmisher lack range than archers)
Bonuses: +300% vs ranged( total of 3+9=12. Normal archer is hp11) and Siege (light Cavalry cost 3 can even out a siege)


How is it now?
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Re: Dashing Assassin

Post by Endru1241 »

Attack power of 5 is low enough to be almost unusable against normal units (considering counters), making it lower and increasing bonuses just makes it benefit more from any boosts - e.g. morale + blacksmith or battle song would double the attack - it's not right.
Speed 4 is already more than regular infantry.
Regular infantry has 3.
4 speed is reserved for any with specific speed specialisation.
5 doesn't exist for infantry right now. Making it would be a precedent for future and honestly - I don't want that.

I have given as an example already adjusted to cost stats and actually really strong for 2 turns - demanding no upgrades, limited training places and limiting blacksmith affecting it.
When trying to give proposition changing it - adding to one strength needs to be balanced by removing or decreasing another.
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Re: Dashing Assassin

Post by Hyuhjhih »

Well good to go
SUMMARISING STATS
  • cost 2
  • hp 12
  • attack 5
  • speed 4
  • Armour 2/6
  • resistance 100%
  • bonus
    +200% vs ranged, healers, siege
  • category melee,foot,agile,anti-ranged,anti-siege
  • trained at castles, monasteries, ..
  • effected by tight fabric, sword Mastery, other unit buffs
  • can occupy buildings


need any further change?
Waiting for your GREEN to proceed on design.
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Re: Dashing Assassin

Post by Endru1241 »

And additional hp and melee armor you given in exchange of what?
Monastery also doesn't really fit training assasins and limiting it's training to castle only is part of balance.
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Re: Dashing Assassin

Post by Hyuhjhih »

Well good to go
SUMMARISING STATS
  • cost 2
  • hp 12=> 10
# but cost 2 unit may have to survive a hit from normal infantry right? So why hp 10?
  • attack 5
  • speed 4
  • Armour 2/6
Endru1241 wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:49 pmArmor: 2/6
  • resistance 100%
  • bonus
    +200% vs ranged, healers, siege
  • category melee,foot,agile,anti-ranged,anti-siege
  • trained at castles, monasteries # Cannoneers are trained at monasteries so why assassin's not¿, ..
  • effected by tight fabric, sword Mastery, other unit buffs
  • can occupy buildings


need any further change?
Waiting for your GREEN to proceed on design.

Just give it a go and we can adjust its stats if required right ;)
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Re: Dashing Assassin

Post by Badnorth »

Hyuhjhih wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:38 am but cost 2 unit may have to survive a hit from normal infantry right? So why hp 10?
There is already a high amount of armor so it is 10.
Plus skirmisher has 0/4 armor with 8 hp but can survive a lot of hits from archer but one hit from swordsman or other melee units with 8 above damage is all It needs.
While this unit has 2/6 with 10hp. It can surely survive a hit from e.g. Swordsman.
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Re: Dashing Assassin ACCEPTED

Post by Endru1241 »

Armor: my bad - sorry.
Trainable: the whole point of monastery is to only have religious related units as main forces and have trouble with low cost units (btw. I removed disband knight from there too). Cannons and trebuchets are added because all mega-buildings will have those siege machines or more fitting equivalents.
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Re: Dashing Assassin ACCEPTED

Post by Hyuhjhih »

For editing
Quadruplestat
Basic Layout Only!
DASHING ASSASSIN.png
DASHING ASSASSIN.png (2.88 KiB) Viewed 1888 times
.
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Re: Dashing Assassin ACCEPTED

Post by Badnorth »

The human is too tall.
Make it look like the same as other units.
E.g. Archer.
Here is a template.
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Re: Dashing Assassin ACCEPTED

Post by Badnorth »

Made one. Hopefully it isn't too far from the original img.
I used archer as a base.
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Re: Dashing Assassin ACCEPTED

Post by Hyuhjhih »

Woah its really nice. I could only add a basic idea since i was on hard shedule past days. I think the costume should do the team rather the boots.
DASHING Assassin New.png
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Other one is also good.
The cloak you made is perfect.
It was the similar one i had in mind. The same as assasin.


@Endru1241 is the json already ready? or should i have to do anything on it?
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Re: Dashing Assassin ACCEPTED

Post by Badnorth »

Fixed team color.
If that team color was to be added - it won't work, leaving it at pink.
Don't shade pink with any color. It has to be pure pink otherwise it won't work.
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Re: Dashing Assassin ACCEPTED

Post by Badnorth »

Team colored inner clothing is also good. However I didn't do it since the inner was mostly hidden inside the cape, I made the first one like that because the shoes and dagger guard would be more visible in terms of team color.
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Re: Dashing Assassin ACCEPTED

Post by Hyuhjhih »

QuadrupoleStrat wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:54 pm Team colored inner clothing is also good. However I didn't do it since the inner was mostly hidden inside the cape, I made the first one like that because the shoes and dagger guard would be more visible in terms of team color.
I just made gold dagger handle cause they were provided better arms from persian or Siberian castles. And according to the readings all they have in excess was a leather cloak . So made the leather looking costume to cloth.
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Re: Dashing Assassin ACCEPTED

Post by Endru1241 »

QuadrupoleStrat wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:50 pm Fixed team color.
If that team color was to be added - it won't work, leaving it at pink.
Don't shade pink with any color. It has to be pure pink otherwise it won't work.
It cannot be shaded, but it can be enlightened.
Engine accepts as team color anything that has r=255, b=255. Green value can be anything you like, so pure purple can be splashed with semi transparent white (e.g. by aero tool) on lighter fragments.
Hyuhjhih wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:39 pm @Endru1241 is the json already ready? or should i have to do anything on it?
I am not putting jsons in the unit topics. When it's processed I am making jsons and all the other required changes and then test it. As testing takes most of the time - I am commonly doing for a bundle. That's why units come in packs lately.
For now dashing assasin is not in the pack.
I'll see if it'll make it, but I am not making any promises.
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Re: Dashing Assassin ACCEPTED

Post by Hyuhjhih »

Any progress @Endru1421
Last edited by Hyuhjhih on Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dashing Assassin ACCEPTED

Post by Endru1241 »

I wasn't notified about this.
If you mention someone use mention html tag (mention in brackets, exact name without spaces, /mention in brackets).

As for topic itself - I haven't even started on celtic units, which takes priority (they were first). It make take some more time.
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Re: Dashing Assassin ACCEPTED

Post by Hyuhjhih »

Oh my friend just bugged my keyboard so it always type a head better than me, thats sometimes get useful and sometimes get crazy.
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Re: Dashing Assassin ACCEPTED

Post by Morningwarrior »

Why not add to dodge attack types,melle,ranged and counter for this unit?make more detailed and another units types can use this in the future,like in aof units.
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Re: Dashing Assassin ACCEPTED

Post by Badnorth »

That is totally absurd, this unit doesn't need dodges. Do you see a fast 1 turn dog or a 3 turn light cavalry with dodge chance?? No, that's ridiculous. Dodge chance in AoF is only there because the way of stats is different there.
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Re: Dashing Assassin ACCEPTED

Post by Hyuhjhih »

Morningwarrior wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:14 pm Why not add to dodge attack types,melle,ranged and counter for this unit?make more detailed and another units types can use this in the future,like in aof units.
No dodge is necessary. Dashing keeps the flavor of the real life ancient warriors, who go straight towards archers and sieges , often untrained of good fighting skills, and are on battle field ready to sacrifice their own lives for a sure kill. So they dont even need a dodge since they can surely take a hit from a swordsman or a knight with hp10 and armour 2/6
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Re: Dashing Assassin ACCEPTED

Post by Morningwarrior »

Hmmmm,assasins determinates to die,i like,i guess is this.
I swore to protect and lead a great order that seeks enlightenment, I was chosen by the great star and I will pour out his fury against anyone who declares himself an enemy!
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