Redundant Units

Put here any ideas, suggestions about unit or structure properties.
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Vulkan
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Redundant Units

Post by Vulkan » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:51 pm

Units not useful anywhere in the game should be tweaked. I can think of these, do add up if you remember anything.
# Voulgier/Svardstavier - Double the cost but nearly equal damage to pikeman(considering bonuses).
# Maceman/Flail - Too similar to each other.
# Daimyo - 8 turns to build & the stats nearly equal to heavy knight.
# Axe knight - weak & no bonuses. Anybody ever used it?
# Centurion - 6 turns, & stats of a heavy knight.
# Maori - weak & no bonuses.
# Chariot - Maybe add a charge ability?
# Spahi - weaker version of knight in same price?
# Siege tower- Should be build-able in Siege Workshop.
# Peasant - Dog is better in every aspect.
# Money courier - Tweak to make mercenaries more useful. Maybe couriers add 5-6 turn to vanishing than current 3.
# Skirmishers- Atl-Atls have 3 times the damage of these kids. 3 times.
# Musketeers - Need tons of research to get & then damage equals archer(considering bonuses).
# Cannoneer - choose catapults over these.
All in all, multiplayer needs more strategy than Knight spam.
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Midonik
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Re: Redundant Units

Post by Midonik » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:04 pm

Well I'm preety sure both centurion and daymo gives bonuses to the units (daymo to Japanese ones, Centurion to I believe all and additionaly even more for Roman) what I believe makes them useful.
Also money courier can speed up production and that in some cases is useful.
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Vulkan
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Re: Redundant Units

Post by Vulkan » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:50 pm

What do you think about the rest of them?
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Midonik
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Re: Redundant Units

Post by Midonik » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:06 pm

Tbh I don't play AoS lately so I can't really tell.
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makazuwr32
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Re: Redundant Units

Post by makazuwr32 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:26 pm

Voulgier and his upgrade is both against infantries and cavalry.
Maceman and flailman: flailman ignores enemy armor. Even if enemy has 100500 armor. Maceman has higher hp and speed.
Daimyo has aura for japan units.
Centurion - same as daimyo but for roman units.
Chariot - it already had suggested many ways to get better. And even they are accepted. We now need to wait for implementation.
Siege tower - why? It can't be transported any way.
Skirmisher - affected by archer upgrades, has his own upgrade, deals tons and tons and tons of damage to elephant archers.
Cannoneer - great anti-catapult unit, has lower miss chance, is cheaper, one of the best choices in castle for training.
Specifically for not so genious persons
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Vulkan
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Re: Redundant Units

Post by Vulkan » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:37 pm

Voulgier's low damage doesn't really qualify it for anti infantry. It can delay them a turn at best.
As for cannoneer, hussars or catapult (upgraded) itself are better as anti-catapult unit, and I'd more likely train trebuchets in castles. They're Awesome in the end game!
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makazuwr32
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Re: Redundant Units

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:41 am

Cannoneer is multipurpose unit:
1. It has high damage + high accuracy.
2. It has same as catapult range + speed 2.
3. It has rather low cost for such stats.
4. It doesn't require workers, can be healed and is immune to fire.
5. Cannoneers are also great in games with water against enemy ships.

Voulgier i don't exactly know what his real purpose.
But i think if he has only 50% bonus against infantries it can be raised up to 100%. Without cost changes.
Specifically for not so genious persons
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godOfKings
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Re: Redundant Units

Post by godOfKings » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:36 am

actually voulgier doesnt have any bonus apparently against infantry, although 50% bonus dealing 16 to 22 damage wouldnt b so bad, may b also needs reach upgrade
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StormSaint373
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Re: Redundant Units

Post by StormSaint373 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:59 pm

Agreed, either 50% or 100%

Kinda like a lancer, but infantry.
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godOfKings
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Re: Redundant Units

Post by godOfKings » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:44 pm

@COOLguy originally it was suggested that voulgier would have low bonus against infantry but doesn't have any

If it gets 50% bonus against infantry, it would deal 8 damage per atk so 16 damage max to infantry, which is lower than 3 turn cost maceman's 30 damage max, even with bonus, voulgier attacking maceman would die from counter atk while maceman survives with 12 HP, so I think 50% bonus is not too much unbalanced
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Belfry777
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Re: Redundant Units

Post by Belfry777 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:32 pm

The ax knight is horrible. I got a run on a catapult and the ax knight couldn't even destroy it. It also does almost nothing against archers and regular infantry. I suggest that we bump up his power. I don't like the idea of armor because that is not historically accurate. But adding a throwing ability for the ax knight sounds cool provided that it has the power boost.
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StormSaint373
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Re: Redundant Units

Post by StormSaint373 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:45 am

Raise bonuses to 100% and add ignore armor... Axes, maces, and hammers were known to do that.
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