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Re: Ballista is OP?

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:17 am
by makazuwr32
Belfry777 wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:14 am
makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:38 am
No it isn't.
Makazuwr32 you defend the H.Balista because you like it's ability to destroy masses of troops. Upon repeated attempts to tone the H.Ballista down, you have refuted my ideas and gave no real answer to fix the issue. However stratego shares my opinion on the issue and feels that the H.Ballista is a little OP. The H.Ballitsa has power 12, 5 armor peirce and 2 actions making a grand total of 24 damage not including the extra damage it causes to nearby units. So... I think the H.Ballisa needs to keep the power back at 10 ( like the regular Ballista )and increase it's health and armor peirce instead. With these revised stats the ballista will only do 20 damage (and area damage) yet have a bump of 4 HP making out to 19.

HP: 19
Attack: 10
Armor pierce: 6
Rest of the stats...
Uhm no.
Not because of that.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:40 am
No. It i feel will make ballistas too underused. sigh Again.
They were underused when they required ballistics tech and they will become again if they will get another nerf.
godOfKings wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:38 pm
A fire archer can one shot ballista without any upgrade.

Its actually burning effect that is op now, it deals 8 dmg instead of prev. 4, ballista gets 4 DMG from fire archer's atk, + 8 from burning and it dies,

Also shielder can one hit kill ballista, build fortress early on and hide a fire archer there, or use a wagon-shielder combo to one hit kill ballista

AND THE MOST USEFUL COUNTER - hide a battering ram in ur town and workers inside it, ballista deals ONLY 1 DAMAGE to battering ram so workers r protected

It is true that ballista might b quite op early on without proper defense, but late game ballista very rapidly loses its value for cost

Then there r cavalry, light cavalry deals 11 DMG so ballista survives with 1 HP only, knight deals 15 DMG so even heavy ballista gets one shot...
Yes i like to make mass kills and because i prefer catapults over ballistas but at least now ballistas have also desent damage and speed 2 while they are extremly easy counterable. Read this post from gok again, @Belfry777.

And if you hate so much current ballistas (without even thinking about easy ways to counter them) well we can increase their cost by +1 i think.

But before let's play 3 matches (on 20x20 map, on 30x30 map and on 40x40 map). You will use ballistas as much as you want and i won't use them at all and we will see if they and their damage is op or not.

Re: Ballista is OP?

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:46 am
by makazuwr32
Also personally i think that best way to balance ballistas is to lower their extra damage (aoe one) to 5 for normal (down from 8) and 6 for heavy (down from 10).

Re: Ballista is OP?

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:55 am
by Stratego (dev)
good for me, any objections?

Re: Ballista is OP?

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:46 pm
by Belfry777
It's good for me. @makazuwr32 I have read GOK's opinion on the fire archers and yes, they are OP as well. As for the upcoming games, I do not have all of the upgrades but I think I can still play.

Re: Ballista is OP?

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:50 pm
by godOfKings
H.ballista has some miss chance on 3 speed units, if area damage is 6, might no longer b able to kill crossbowman, and deal lowest damage to shield knight, while still pretty much annihilates defender

Re: Ballista is OP?

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:04 pm
by godOfKings
Also roman units will become nearly invulnerable to ballista/h.ballista if they r under effect of drumbeat

Re: Ballista is OP?

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:28 pm
by Belfry777
godOfKings wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:04 pm
Also roman units will become nearly invulnerable to ballista/h.ballista if they r under effect of drumbeat
Drum beats actually do something?

Re: Ballista is OP?

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:37 pm
by makazuwr32
Yes. It speeds up most roman units.

Re: Ballista is OP?

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:21 am
by Vulkan
It feel like nobody's even acknowledging all those easy ways to counter that people have posted?
Why all y'all so hell bent on saying it's OP without a proper argument to support it?
@Stratego (dev) ,,, can you first compare stats of ballistas against these counters-
H. Knights , cavaliers
Shield knights
Defenders (upgraded & basic both)
Fire archers
Rams
Catapults
Fortress
The only argument you've given is 'people use them too much'. Something more concrete would be much appreciated.

Re: Ballista is OP?

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:01 am
by Stratego (dev)
i suggested a test game showing everyone if it is OP or not.
please someone play a game and make 3-4 screenshots to show they are beatable or not
or alternatively some tests: eg. ballistas against this and that unit.

"people use them too much": this is a very good indicator of an op unit, if something is overused than that is easy to win with, or can mean that most people dont know how to deal with them.

Re: Ballista is OP?

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:50 am
by godOfKings
answer is most people dont know how to deal with them, because they r so used to the stereotypical playstyle of worker spams

and for belfry, roman units under effect of drummer aura gets 4 speed (cavalry gets 6 SPEED), h.ballista with 15% inaccuracy wil have 60% chance to MISS roman units, so they deal usually 6 to 10 damage to roman units (depending on p.armor) if makazuwr's area damage nerfing proposal is implemented

Re: Ballista is OP?

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:18 pm
by TheHunter
4 DMG from fire archer's atk, + 8 from burning
Now + 6 burning because?

Re: Ballista is OP?

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:10 am
by godOfKings
u mean burning deals 6 damage now? no idea, may b something changed

Re: Ballista is OP?

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:05 pm
by Stratego (dev)
coolguy said it was accidental having 8 damage. so i set to the value he requested.

Re: Ballista is OP?

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:00 pm
by godOfKings
Well that will once again bring a big change

For example I thought factory with 20 HP and 5 p.armor being destroyed by 2 fire archers which cost 6 turns was balanced as factory cost about 4 worker turns

And 100 HP battering ram getting about 27 damage from castle +burning effect was balanced (castle needs 3 turns of burning stacks to destroy one battering ram, but workers can make 2 h.battering rams with same turn costs as building 1 castle)

Castle itself gets 100+ damage for each burning stack

And finally it made destroying h.catapult spams (as well as ballista) much MUCH easier ...

So my overall verdict is that I prefer the current burning damage mechanism
May b I should contact cool guy on this subject, wat do u think? @Stratego (dev)

Re: Ballista is OP?

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:35 pm
by Stratego (dev)
ok, contact him

Re: Ballista is OP?

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:41 pm
by godOfKings
I did, but he didn't reply yet