Use of Unused Towers

Put here any ideas, suggestions about unit or structure properties.
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makazuwr32
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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by makazuwr32 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:55 am

Anyway i gave you an idea. Now discuss towers without me.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by Stratego (dev) » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:19 am

makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:55 am
Anyway i gave you an idea. Now discuss towers without me.
i hope you have not get offendedd because of my answeer because i was totally not ment to offend u in any way.

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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:41 am

No i am not. I just work more on aof and this question in intresting but related to aos only.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by StormSaint373 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:19 pm

So,, what is the standing on this...

It seems inconclusive.

Personally, I like to see these towers in AoF, but... I think that they need to be implemented for AoS first.
Beware the calm before the Tempest. . .

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makazuwr32
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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by makazuwr32 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:28 pm

First thing first:
We do not need over 100500 towers in aof.
Especially for single race (humans for example).

If you want new towers for aof than suggest something new.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by Klon » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:24 am

God no we don't need a bazillion towers no thanks

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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:56 pm

The addition of these unused towers won't even make ten(for AoS[without the newly proposed towers and only the already made towers that aren't used])...
Last edited by Puss_in_Boots on Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by StormSaint373 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:43 pm

Counting the Towers (even ones in game) it would make a total of 11

That's if the towers were put in as it's own and not as upgrades.

But, even so... The number is hardly a thing to worry about.
This proposition was made to expand strategy and playstyle.
Beware the calm before the Tempest. . .

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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by StormSaint373 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:07 pm

@Stratego (dev) ?
Beware the calm before the Tempest. . .

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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:32 pm

i was waiting for some conclusion, if there is please list
- new towers to put in game
- new tower upgrades (eg. exiting tower upgrades) to put in.

with stats is possible


thanks!

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Endru1241
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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by Endru1241 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:12 am

I am thinking:
Guard Tower -> Crossbow Tower (power 8, range 6, 55hp, 1/6 armor, 8 sight, 1 carry cap, 4 heal rate)
Longbow Tower - stand-alone or alternative Guard Tower upgrade (6 turns, 5 with ambidexteria, 70hp - it's slightly larger, power 6, range 8, armor 0/6, sight 8, carry cap 1, heal rate 5 - basically cheaper fortress with lesser endurance and no burning attack )
Sharpshooter Tower - stand-alone (8turns, 6 with ambidexteria, 35hp, power 3, range 9, armor 0/7, sight 9, carry cap 1, heal rate 3, +300% melee foot, archer-foot, worker, light cavalry)
Ballista Tower - stand-alone (requires ballistics, 12 turns, 9 with ambidexteria, hp 85, power 10, range 5, armor 2/4, sight 8, carry cap 2, heal 10)
Musket Tower - upgrade of Forest Sentry and Watch Tower (requires Gunpowder, hp 25, power 8, range 6, armor 0/3, accuracy penalty 0.6 - from musketeer, sight 8, can see stealth units, no carry) or second version being upgrade of forest sentry (with 5 range, sight 6 and 32 hp)

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makazuwr32
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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:42 am

If you want upgrades than please use new tower instead of existing guard tower.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by StormSaint373 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:54 pm

Endru1241 wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:12 am
I am thinking:
Guard Tower -> Crossbow Tower (power 8, range 6, 55hp, 1/6 armor, 8 sight, 1 carry cap, 4 heal rate)
Longbow Tower - stand-alone or alternative Guard Tower upgrade (6 turns, 5 with ambidexteria, 70hp - it's slightly larger, power 6, range 8, armor 0/6, sight 8, carry cap 1, heal rate 5 - basically cheaper fortress with lesser endurance and no burning attack )
Sharpshooter Tower - stand-alone (8turns, 6 with ambidexteria, 35hp, power 3, range 9, armor 0/7, sight 9, carry cap 1, heal rate 3, +300% melee foot, archer-foot, worker, light cavalry)
Ballista Tower - stand-alone (requires ballistics, 12 turns, 9 with ambidexteria, hp 85, power 10, range 5, armor 2/4, sight 8, carry cap 2, heal 10)
Musket Tower - upgrade of Forest Sentry and Watch Tower (requires Gunpowder, hp 25, power 8, range 6, armor 0/3, accuracy penalty 0.6 - from musketeer, sight 8, can see stealth units, no carry) or second version being upgrade of forest sentry (with 5 range, sight 6 and 32 hp)
I like this idea...

But how would this "new tower" function if we aren't using the guard tower?
Is it a guard tower but specifically designed for the upgrades?
Beware the calm before the Tempest. . .

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Endru1241
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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by Endru1241 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:45 pm

Why not make advancements centre or castle upgrade all towers in their build queue (but then crossbow tower would need to be 6 power and no alternatives)
or make clicking upgrade transform tower to under construction tower - has the same garrison, but no heal, looses armor, shooting capability, but gains self-mend to it's own construction (if it won't make it loose garrisoned units). It should be easy to destroy then, so there is a sacrifice. Fully build "under construction tower" gains ability to use it's transformation to proper tower.
Minus of this idea is, that each tower upgrade would need additional "under construction" unit data.
I don't know if it's possible (for example if multiple alternative transformations are allowed) - just the idea.
Another option - less favoured, but acceptable is to leave this "under construction tower" without mending capability - so worker needed (but then we could just transform it to proper tower).

Adding new base , weak tower is not meeting one of expectations - to make players use less used towers.

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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by makazuwr32 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:38 pm

That weak tower will be base for upgrading, yes. It will be sort of a bit better scout tower without ability to see invisible.

Its main role is its ability to be upgraded into better towers.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:49 pm
Stratego (dev) wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:02 am
good idea, so it is a 2 phase building of the final tower:
1. garrison tower (only a base for any of the towers)
2. and by inventing one of the towers it turns to the final one.
Exactly. Also this garrison tower should not have carry capacity or attack.
As for upgrading - it will work the same way as church upgrades into cathedral.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:04 pm

I prefer to use what we have, unless you want multiple base towers... The only difference is a boost on specific stats for desired path.

Eg:
Guard tower -> Crossbow Tower (+atk) or Longbow Tower (+range).

Fortress -> Repeater Fortress (++action) or Ballista Fortress (+atk+aoe).

Cannon tower -> Bombard Tower (+dmg+aoe) or Sharpshoot Tower (+sight+range).
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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by makazuwr32 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:59 pm

Stratego (dev) wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:37 am
no, no. you misunderstnd me:

so it is free because there is nothing else to build there, you you dont need to "sacrifice" other productions (eg. unitS) for sake of this upgrade.
this is i mean free.

sorry i am hard to explain myself in english lol :)
if someone understand me please try to help me explain :)
-------
however the mechanics can work without coding.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:36 am
Stratego means that you can freely upgrade tower into the one you need without sactificing initial tower's functions: defence (it still has its hp and armors and if tower has carry cap than it also keeps its function of defending unit inside) and attack (attack of tower and its range).

I suggest for those towers to add some basic tower without attack and carry capacity and with low hp.
Stratego (dev) wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:02 am
good idea, so it is a 2 phase building of the final tower:
1. garrison tower (only a base for any of the towers)
2. and by inventing one of the towers it turns to the final one.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:49 pm
Stratego (dev) wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:02 am
good idea, so it is a 2 phase building of the final tower:
1. garrison tower (only a base for any of the towers)
2. and by inventing one of the towers it turns to the final one.
Exactly. Also this garrison tower should not have carry capacity or attack.
That way as you suggest these upgrades are free and that is why i don't like your idea.

It is like you suggest free upgrade (regardless of cost it will be free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! because tower won't sacrifice anything for that upgrade: it still can defend abd heal units inside, you can still repair it, it still has sight range and can shoot thus it doesn't sacrifice any its functions for upgrade) for each tower. That is why i don't like this.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by Endru1241 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:47 pm

Just to be clear - @makazuwr32 are you supporting the idea that upgrade could look like that:
Guard Tower ->\immediate transform\ ->Weak Tower ->\waiting time\-> Crossbow Tower

or

no upgrade for guard tower at all.

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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by makazuwr32 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:30 pm

No upgrade for existing towers at all. Not only guard tower but all existing towers.

I support idea for new costly (i think it should have cost 8-9 turns when built by workers with ambidextria) and weak (halved hp of guard tower, is not affected by hp increasing techs unlike its upgrades) base tower with no carry capacity and no attack that can be upgraded into any of advanced towers.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by Endru1241 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:01 am

If so - why bother with upgrade ?
Just increase build time accordingly and build them normally.

On the other hand my proposition is to let player start upgrade - transform tower into something unusable or very limited for a time of upgrade and only after completing the upgrade tower regains stronger capabilities.
It is clear sacrifice - you risk having it destroyed, you lose sight, you lose stealth view (in case of watch tower), you lose healing rate, you lose potential attack. The only reason I mentioned leaving Carry Capacity intact was to avoid destroying units inside. It could be left without it too - but then adding some kind of a message, like "Upgrading Tower destroys units inside, Are you sure?" should be strongly considered.

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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by Stratego (dev) » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:43 am

makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:30 pm
No upgrade for existing towers at all. Not only guard tower but all existing towers.

I support idea for new costly (i think it should have cost 8-9 turns when built by workers with ambidextria) and weak (halved hp of guard tower, is not affected by hp increasing techs unlike its upgrades) base tower with no carry capacity and no attack that can be upgraded into any of advanced towers.
here i need to share my thoughts:

1. i would like to have upgrades for all towers (even separately) eg. reinforced guard tower and reinforced fortress tower and such.

2. also alternatively i support to upgrade them as a "row" eg. upgrade to "crossbow towers" that upgrades guard tower and fortress tower too to a next level.

3. also i support making brand new towers too.

4. the least i like the "weak not usable" tower "basee" thing, that would become a hassle to upgrade them and such. as a player i want usable things at first and after upgrades too.

:)

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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:08 am

Stratego (dev) wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:43 am
here i need to share my thoughts:

1. i would like to have upgrades for all towers (even separately) eg. reinforced guard tower and reinforced fortress tower and such.
It is in the game already in form of both hp techs.
Stratego (dev) wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:43 am
2. also alternatively i support to upgrade them as a "row" eg. upgrade to "crossbow towers" that upgrades guard tower and fortress tower too to a next level.
As for me if this will be researchable at advancement center tech that upgrades all towers into better version (like for swordmen to broad swordmen tech in barracks) i am fine.
If this is researchable for each tower inside the tower itself than i disagree with this.
Stratego (dev) wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:43 am
4. the least i like the "weak not usable" tower "basee" thing, that would become a hassle to upgrade them and such. as a player i want usable things at first and after upgrades too.
In this variant i want because of high base cost of tower low turn cost for upgrades. For example to upgrade into crossbow tower 2 turns cost and into ballista tower maybe 3 or 4 turns.

Most costly tower upgrade i think should cost 5 turns.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by Stratego (dev) » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:12 am

It is in the game already in form of both hp techs.
Here i ment upgrading as archer to crossbowman.

If this is researchable for each tower inside the tower itself than i disagree with this.
No i dont plan to put any factory thing in towers, i ment in advancement center.

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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:21 am

Stratego (dev) wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:12 am
It is in the game already in form of both hp techs.
Here i ment upgrading as archer to crossbowman.
So if you upgrade archers to crossbowmen you want that this will also affect towers, am i right?
Stratego (dev) wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:12 am
If this is researchable for each tower inside the tower itself than i disagree with this.
No i dont plan to put any factory thing in towers, i ment in advancement center.
I am fine with this.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by Stratego (dev) » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:30 pm

So if you upgrade archers to crossbowmen you want that this will also affect towers, am i right?
nooo :)
i ment a new upgrade like "Crossbow towers" in advancements center that will upgrade
guard tower -> crossbow tower
fortress tower -> crossbow fortress tower

or something like these namings.

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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by Endru1241 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:55 pm

Then my proposition is - slightly change original towers:
Crossbow Tower (6 turns, 5 or 4? with ambidexteria, power 8, range 6, 60hp, 1/6 armor, 8 sight, 1 carry cap, 4 heal rate)
Longbow Tower - (6 turns, 5 or 4? with ambidexteria, 70hp , power 6, range 8, armor 0/6, sight 8, carry cap 1, heal rate 5)
Sharpshooter Tower - (8turns, 6 with ambidexteria, 35hp, power 3, range 9, armor 0/7, sight 9, carry cap 1, heal rate 3, +300% cheap melee, cheap archer, worker, light cavalry)
Ballista Tower - (requires ballistics, 12 turns, 9 with ambidexteria, hp 85, power 10, range 5, armor 2/4, sight 8, carry cap 2, heal 10)
Musket Tower - (hp 40, power 12, range 6, armor 1/4, accuracy penalty 0.6, sight 7, no carry)

and allow them to be build (maybe by worker upgrade?)

additionally let's just add Upgrades to Towers:
Guard Tower -> Reinforced Guard Tower (+15hp, +1 armor, +1 dam, +1 range) - upgrade could cost 6 turns in adv. center.

Forest Sentry -> Ranger Sentry (adds 4 power attack with 6 range, +10hp, +1/+1armor)
Watch Tower -> Watchmen Tower (adds 5 power attack with 6 range, +5 hp, +1/+1armor)
the same upgrade would affect both of them

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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by StormSaint373 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:28 pm

Personally, @Endru1241 , I think ...

Longbow tower should have 60hp, and Crossbow Tower should have 70hp

Mainly because of the fact that the longbow tower is not as likely to be forced into combat (built more for range)

And let the heal rates be the same (5)
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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by StormSaint373 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:51 pm

@Stratego (dev) ?

Thoughts?
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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by Stratego (dev) » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:07 pm

sorry i have yet time to check the things here.

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Re: Use of Unused Towers

Post by Stratego (dev) » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:54 am

ok Endru i love the tower types and setting you wrote!
about hp you can two discuss 60 or 70, either can be good.

only one tower is weird to me "sharpshooter tower" what would that be in "realiy" a skilled archer in a normal tower? if so it can simply be an upgrade (better shooting archers ordered to defend the tower) - so this is the only one i would not put in this time.

all others can go!

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