Elven tech

[DreJaDe]

Elven tech are too expensive. If I'm correct, their techs are 4,6,8 turn cost which is too expensive.

They are indeed a powerful upg that they can reach like 3/3 dmg for normal archers, 2/2 for melee or the miss chance but compared to how others races this could be easily countered.

I'll cut of with this
I won't say too much

Now my suggestion is just make their upgrades 3/4/5 or just 4/4/4.

[Savra]

I think their upgrades are fine the way they are, the dodges are being fixed so that bonuses can't counteract them. Elves are more based on ranged anyway and the range upgrade is quite useful for them. It's better then that of humans and orcs who require other upgrades to upgrade 1 unit (orc cavalry, and humans units who require blacksmith upgrades to coincide with their unit upgrades).

Also, scaledfolks on remake will have a somewhat similar style to the elves upgrades.

[DreJaDe]

I guess that is your view but in a game where they were supposed to attack a defended TC. They wouldn't be able to conquer it if the enemy is atleast equal to them in economy or if the enemy is tier 2 or 3.

They have strong range units that can be countered by the miss chances of anti archers, cheap for humans at the point.

From my observation and analysis, elves can't take an equal fight for they will always lose. They always need a momentum and advantage in order to win. Always...

I guess there's not that much elf players to play with so maybe I'm wrong?

Last is their inability to fight in big maps

I have not seen a game where they win in a big map or late game 15 turns and above, 30x30 map.

My point still stands

[Savra]

Then lowering the techs cost isn't the answer, I've actually tried using them at full upgrade and noticed using the elf archers in combination with ent warriors tends to get me somewhere. But the problem with elves isn't their techs but their units in general, they lack a lot of units.

This is due to their restrictions which tends to turn most people away from making units for them, or at least low cost units. It would be nice to see them get more units. I plan to work on the Arch druid more, he will be able to summon bears rather then wolves and would have a different spell set then what I have him. I also would like the wisps cool down to be reduced to about 3-2.

[makazuwr32]

Cooldown won't be reduced for wisps but instead their summoning spell can be added onto great trees.

Lowering techs will help indeed.
As for new spell casters - please wait a bit before we will revamp spell list of current druid and wizard as well as add new techs for them.

[Savra]

I still say more units would improve them greatly, besides the Arch druid isn't being worked on just yet until I get a few other things done. Some basic units like a scout cavalry, ranged cavalry, more cheaper siege options, and other units that have decent stats like a better spearmen and the such. Currently they seem to be falling behind in unit suggestions (Dwarves have a lot of units for them and their just starting out, elves have been their since the beginning of Aof, and every one already surpasses them and that's not me counting the upgraded forms either), if they are to compete with the other races they need more options unit wise, not techs because they have too much of those as it is.

My suggestion is we start looking at giving them some more basic units like anti armoured ranged units and the such, that should help when they have to deal with some of these races.

[makazuwr32]

They will get indeed new scout but he will not be cavalry unit. He will be infantry unit with jump that can be used each turn (no research required).

They also will get several siege casters.

Also we have agreement on eagle riders with alex. Only what is required for them are images and jsoning when images will be ready.

But those units are extra and their implementation doesn't mean that core problems of elves being extremly costly race for upgrading will be solved.

[Alexander82]

We were already discussing that point but I want to wait a bit after the next elven units will come in (all eagle mounting units, new siege units and scout)

Also dodge must be reworked but that need @Stratego (dev)'s action.

About dodge I'd like it to be always active altough to a smaller degree (e.g. lower base dodge but always active or dodge negated based to bonus enemy units have instead of totally negated)

E.G. in some cases total removal is fine (this is the case of counter units like skirmishers and spearmen) so that kind of unit should be able to entirely negate dodge to their designated targets, while a generalistic bonus (e.g. 50% to infantry of several units or the 50% against dragons from archers) should just reduce dodge rate but not negate the chance of dodging.