On burning and skeletons

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Sunrise Samurai
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On burning and skeletons

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:45 pm

It's been mentioned that there are too many sources of burning to keep undead basic units useful. I rather agree with this, as burning should counter powerful units like trolls more than units that dont need such a large scale counter.

I suggest burning be removed from skeletons (as well as poison) but all canine units be given a bonus against them instead. This means wolves will be the elven response to basic units with really high pierce armor and have a 100% bonus, while the canine scout will have some use for once and get a much larger bonus so it deals some damage to them as well.
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Typhoon
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Re: On burning and skeletons

Post by Typhoon » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:55 pm

I really appreciate someone finally noticed how bad fire is against undeads right now
Skeletons are spine of undead army when fighting against vulcano tower you dont even have chance to hit it because it will burn you to ashes before you will reach it we also have to remember fire stacks which means you can deal 12 or 16 damage per turn at some point
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Alexander82
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Re: On burning and skeletons

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:56 pm

More than canine units I'd go with a bonus for blunt weapon's users

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Savra
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Re: On burning and skeletons

Post by Savra » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:21 pm

I agree with no burning on skeletons but zombies can keep their burning since there isn't much of them.

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Sunrise Samurai
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Re: On burning and skeletons

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:21 pm

Maybe both. The point of fire was supposed to save elves from the high pierce armor in early game. Elves don't have blunt weapons right now, so they need something to get past the pierce armor before they can research magic arrows.
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Midonik
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Re: On burning and skeletons

Post by Midonik » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:25 pm

Agree with Alexander, anything heavy engoun that can crush bones should have bonus against sceletons for elfs etns, demolishers (will it actually made them useful?) dragons (?), for humans those holy knights with hammers (double bonus, because both crush bones and holy weapons) maybe also axe throwers (and put them in as bulidable), orcs have crushers and giants (maybe besides orc leader and upgrades, since they use sword, but given it's size it's blunt weapon anyway) and axe throwers again, also dragon, for undeads... We can add some hammer sceleton, phantom crusher and maybe fire skull thrower but, doesn't give fire effect, counter part of axe throwers, dwarfs can have hammer warrior and riflemen, Scaledfolks can have dragons and maybe slingers, also turtlemens.
I've ensure every race has an ranged way to deal with sceletons.
Actually it didn't make a lot of sense that bones burn like wood, right?
Also undeads should be immune to posion, yes.
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LordOfAles
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Re: On burning and skeletons

Post by LordOfAles » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:03 pm

It doesn't have to be a blunt weapon. It has to be just something that can bash things. And ents do that.
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Re: On burning and skeletons

Post by Midonik » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:23 pm

Midonik wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:25 pm
anything heavy engoun that can crush bones should have bonus against sceletons for elfs etns, demolishers (will it actually made them useful?) dragons (?), for humans those holy knights with hammers (double bonus, because both crush bones and holy weapons) maybe also axe throwers (and put them in as bulidable), orcs have crushers and giants (maybe besides orc leader and upgrades, since they use sword, but given it's size it's blunt weapon anyway) and axe throwers again, also dragon, for undeads... We can add some hammer sceleton, phantom crusher and maybe fire skull thrower but, doesn't give fire effect, counter part of axe throwers, dwarfs can have hammer warrior and riflemen, Scaledfolks can have dragons and maybe slingers, also turtlemens.
I've ensure every race has an ranged way to deal with sceletons.
I completely didn't write that, LoA.
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StormSaint373
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Re: On burning and skeletons

Post by StormSaint373 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:53 pm

Remove poison, yes, remove fire... Probably not the best idea, maybe for some of them...
The undead phantoms can tank defenses with caster support. I've done it! :twisted:
But crushing weapons bonuses, excellent idea, they where the weapons known to be good vs undead.
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Alexander82
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Re: On burning and skeletons

Post by Alexander82 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:57 am

I think that the powerbase should help a lot against undeads (a fast archer dealing 8 guaranteed damages is perfect against skeleton infantry units).

Ent warrior bonus might help too but I think it is not such a problem since it is a melee unit anyway, so no problem against high pierce armor.

I understand the dog reference (since in cartoons that's what they seems to love) but it totally unrealistic.

We might create an elven staff fighter that wield a reinforced quarter staff and it is specialized in killing skeletons (even tough it would be cool to make it rising sun)

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Re: On burning and skeletons

Post by Midonik » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:15 pm

I really support this one.
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Midonik
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Re: On burning and skeletons

Post by Midonik » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:54 pm

@Alexander82 seriously better put it in or everyone will eat you alive, basing on what's happening on Discord.
Mine suggestion:
Midonik wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:23 pm
anything heavy engoun that can crush bones should have bonus against sceletons for elfs etns, demolishers (will it actually made them useful?) dragons (?), for humans those holy knights with hammers (double bonus, because both crush bones and holy weapons) maybe also axe throwers (and put them in as bulidable), orcs have crushers and giants (maybe besides orc leader and upgrades, since they use sword, but given it's size it's blunt weapon anyway) and axe throwers again, also dragon, for undeads... We can add some hammer sceleton, phantom crusher and maybe fire skull thrower but, doesn't give fire effect, counter part of axe throwers, dwarfs can have hammer warrior and riflemen, Scaledfolks can have dragons and maybe slingers, also turtlemens.
I've ensure every race has an ranged way to deal with sceletons.
Support new AoS variant, Age of Galaxy,its si-fi themed: viewforum.php?f=135
All help will be welcome.

Fielderan Crown's Great Hetman
viewtopic.php?f=66&t=4729

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makazuwr32
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Re: On burning and skeletons

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:46 pm

I disagree with this still.
Instead of removing something better to add some more hard hitters.

Reason why many players want to remove burning from undeads is that tehy have nearly nothing non-burnable and pretty powerful for training in tc's and graveyards.
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Savra
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Re: On burning and skeletons

Post by Savra » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:16 pm

Midonik wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:54 pm
@Alexander82 seriously better put it in or everyone will eat you alive, basing on what's happening on Discord.
Mine suggestion:
Midonik wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:23 pm
anything heavy engoun that can crush bones should have bonus against sceletons for elfs etns, demolishers (will it actually made them useful?) dragons (?), for humans those holy knights with hammers (double bonus, because both crush bones and holy weapons) maybe also axe throwers (and put them in as bulidable), orcs have crushers and giants (maybe besides orc leader and upgrades, since they use sword, but given it's size it's blunt weapon anyway) and axe throwers again, also dragon, for undeads... We can add some hammer sceleton, phantom crusher and maybe fire skull thrower but, doesn't give fire effect, counter part of axe throwers, dwarfs can have hammer warrior and riflemen, Scaledfolks can have dragons and maybe slingers, also turtlemens.
I've ensure every race has an ranged way to deal with sceletons.
We have Cannibals in are midst
But honestly I'm kinda with makazuwru on this one, maybe add some Undead that can't burn or something and that should fix the problem. E.g. Fire skull thrower (Its literally holding flaming skulls.) And maybe it's counterpart the armoured skeleton, who we could give flame immunity to as well as maybe a flaming weapon. This would solve your problem simply.

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Lynx Shafir
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Re: On burning and skeletons

Post by Lynx Shafir » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:02 pm

Sceletons need more hp (may via tech) and less fire dmg(but should remain)

Adding bonuse to blunts weapons and giants won't help the sceletons position cos some have hight dmg or armor ignore already, making sceletons more vulnerable agains all races - mostly orcs and humans with too many holy units (4 templars - why?!) - double bonus - completely disagree,


etc.



Also removing burning from banshee!!
And adding mid cost ghost (4-5cost. ghost dwarf, wraith, spectre) would help much.

Wither sceleton will be immune to burning.

Some giants too(hopefully get in soon)

And the veil or main race!! healer caster will help a lot.
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makazuwr32
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Re: On burning and skeletons

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:37 pm

What exactly i want about undeads:
1. Exept of skeleton based units all units must be immune to fire and poison.
2. I want to add second set of base units - zombies with weapons and upgrades for them.
Skeletons also will get update.
Skeletons will be more damaging, also with some spell resistance after upgrades.
Zombies will be more tanky without spell resistance and with worse damage.
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Savra
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Re: On burning and skeletons

Post by Savra » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:05 pm

You mean with spell resist? Skeletons don't have spell resist and zombies have 100% resist.

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Tankhead
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Re: On burning and skeletons

Post by Tankhead » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:14 pm

Yea I agree with maka also
Don't remove burning just remove poison
( undead shouldn't be affected by poison )

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Lynx Shafir
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Re: On burning and skeletons

Post by Lynx Shafir » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:22 pm

That depends on poison tipe and unit.
(yes right now we have only one)

May if get 2 more variants, can remove the current from sceletons.
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makazuwr32
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Re: On burning and skeletons

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:08 pm

I mean only current poison.
Newest variants must be discussed each.

For example acid i think must affect skeletons.
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