Giant magnifying glass

Post Reply
Pyro
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:55 am
Location: The draconic highlands

Giant magnifying glass

Post by Pyro »

Giant Magnifying Glass

Image

If there is one thing that im missing while besieging as the dwarves is FiErY DEstRuCtiON :mrgreen:

The "giant magnifying glass" is a siege unit that captures the energy of the sun and and releases it in concentrated rays. It does little to no damage directly, but can inflict crippling to minor burn statuses depending on how far away your target is. When used up close, if your oponent doesnt react quickly enough, they may be facing a charred mega structure within 1-2 turns. When used from afar, your oponent will be pressed to prevent their walls from slowly burning.

Cost: 5
Hp: 25
Attack: 2 (burning weapon)
Range: 4
Minimum Range: 3
Armor: 2
P. Armor: 4
Speed: 2 (siege weapon)
Sight: 10
Action Turn: 6/6
Spell Resistance: 0%

Abilities:

Medium Range Beam - Gives +2 range for 1 turn, uses 2 actions. 0 cooldown.

Long Range Beam- Gives +4 range for 1 turn, uses 4 actions . 0 cooldown.

As you see, this unit doesnt deal well with flesh and blood units but punishes those who dont protect their valuable builders.

Just for added speculation, an upgrade to this unit could be a giant telescope that does everything that the former does but adds +5 sight and spy detection
Last edited by Pyro on Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
"You want that on fire? Yes yes on fire. On fire it is."
User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 7830
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by makazuwr32 »

Not bad idea as for me but i am not sure if it is possible to apply multiple stacks with single ability on current engine.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader
Image
User avatar
Alexander82
Posts: 7969
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 »

Also I think that 10 stacks together can instantkill any unit vulnerable to fire
Age of Fantasy design leader
User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 7830
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by makazuwr32 »

Actually no.
It deals only 40 damage.
If unit has more than 44 hp it won't instadie (undead dragon for example or olog hai despite increased damage from burning).
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader
Image
Pyro
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:55 am
Location: The draconic highlands

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Pyro »

With testing (something i shouldve done beforehand :? ) i found that 10 stacked fire does insta kill. Currently though, im confused as to how fire works as on the castle, one fire status will 125 damage per turn but say on a golden skeleton rider, it only does 3. Regardless, im gonna tone down the fire affects and suggest a new status identical to fire, but X times stronger
"You want that on fire? Yes yes on fire. On fire it is."
User avatar
Alexander82
Posts: 7969
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 »

burning deal a fixed damage multiplied for the bonus related to the target category

Both fortified/mega buildings and trolls get a huge amount of extra damage by fire
Age of Fantasy design leader
Pyro
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:55 am
Location: The draconic highlands

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Pyro »

At 5 cost, within 4 tiles away, using both of its 2/2 attacks, this unit can raze down a castle within 2 turns if nothing is done about its confrontation. Keep in mind it only has a speed of 2. Is this balanced? All ears
"You want that on fire? Yes yes on fire. On fire it is."
User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 7830
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by makazuwr32 »

Maybe a bit higher amounts of burning but only 1 action.
Like 5/3/1.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader
Image
User avatar
Alexander82
Posts: 7969
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 »

I think it is balanced but aside from that:

1) we cannot add multiple instance of burning in a json
2) those things required quite some times to be used effectively so I can't think of them being used on something different than a building or a ship into a port
3) dwarves will have ranged siege with longer range (but for a higher cost)
4) those mirrors (they were mirrors) will be something difficult to carry around.

The idea itself is nice but maybe you might change the concept of the unit like

A) a low cost wooden gnomish tower that can apply burning on enemies

B) an ability for units with a mirror shield that can apply burning, maybe during a defensive stance (it is believed that originally it was made by using multiple mirrors or polished shields).

Feel free to add other ideas
Age of Fantasy design leader
User avatar
Savra
Posts: 5629
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Savra »

I think it could work for both ships and tower. But not a wooden tower. With it though we can finally change the dwarf guard tower to normal cannonball shots rather then lava or flaming rocks. It would be nice if the damage could increase over time or something, but I don't think that's programmable, or the engine might not support it either.
User avatar
Alexander82
Posts: 7969
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 »

I was thinking to something that could be placed as an early defence line providing the final amount of burning requested

A line of this cheap mirrors could really cause a lot of burning compared to a few costly towers.
Age of Fantasy design leader
User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 7830
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by makazuwr32 »

What if make this siege to work as trebushet?
Cart mode without abilities other than transfrom with some speed (moving form) and magnifying glass mode (siege form without moving)?

I think this way it can work.

As for many stacks for single turn i have idea:
5 abilities with ranges 4/5/6/7/8, 1 actions cost, 1 turn cooldown and each exept last one give +1 action. Each just applies 1 stack of burning. This way in range 4 you will be able to apply 5 stacks and in range 8 only 1 stack in single turn.

And lastly: maybe make it tiered as well (i suppose they will have tiers for their siege as well)?
If yes than we can have:
Tier 1 - range 4 ability;
Tier 2 - range 4 + ranges 5 and 6 abilities;
Tier 3 - ranges 4, 5 and 6 + ranges 7 and 8 abilities.
Last edited by makazuwr32 on Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader
Image
User avatar
Alexander82
Posts: 7969
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 »

Yes, it is more likely to be made this way. Anyway it can't have multiple burning in one action.

To do that it should have multiple actions.
Age of Fantasy design leader
User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 7830
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by makazuwr32 »

Updated my previous post.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader
Image
User avatar
Alexander82
Posts: 7969
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 »

I was thinking to something different.

Now we can set action cost for abilities so high range ability might require 5 actions while the most basic can use less.

Another way could be just giving it burning weapon and make the abilities spend actions to increase temporary the unit's range

So you basically use always the normal attack but you need to self buff (that stacks with itself) more time to increase range if you want to hit a further enemy
Age of Fantasy design leader
User avatar
Alexander82
Posts: 7969
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 »

Btw we also need to check how much damage is dealt by a single instance of burning to the most vulnerable targets.
Age of Fantasy design leader
Pyro
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:55 am
Location: The draconic highlands

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Pyro »

Adressing the flavor of the unit, despite what the picture may seem like like, the unit its intended to mount several refractive lens, perhaps made of large transparent gemstones found within dwarven mines, that concentrate passing light. The are not mirrors.

Also, I tried to avoid adding many actions to the unit because I thought it would counter undead hordes too well, thus why i suggest additional identical fire statuses that are X times more potent
"You want that on fire? Yes yes on fire. On fire it is."
User avatar
Alexander82
Posts: 7969
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 »

if we make an ability require more actions it will be fine
Age of Fantasy design leader
User avatar
Alexander82
Posts: 7969
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 »

Also I suggest to give it a higher minimum range so it won't be able to attack in melee
Age of Fantasy design leader
Pyro
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:55 am
Location: The draconic highlands

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Pyro »

Good idea will do :D

:Edit: the changes I made are this

The unit no longer attacks using ability/spells. It now has burning weapon, 4 range and 6/6 actions. At a maximum distance of 4 tiles, it can inflict 6 burning statuses in 1 turn. Using the medium range ability, at 6 tiles away, it can inflict 4 burning statuses. Using the long range ability, at 8 tiles away, it can inflict only 2 burning statuses.
"You want that on fire? Yes yes on fire. On fire it is."
User avatar
Alexander82
Posts: 7969
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 »

What about:
attack: 0
range: 4
actions: 5
default burning weapon

abilities:

Align lenses - uses 1 action and provide 1 range for 1 turn
or
attack: 0
range: 0
casting range: 4
actions: 5
default burning weapon

abilities:

Align lenses - uses 1 action and provide 1 casting range for 1 turn

Ray of light - inflict 1 burning instance to a target in its casting range
Age of Fantasy design leader
User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 7830
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by makazuwr32 »

I would only prefer to use regular range because it will allow to make things easier to look and count.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader
Image
User avatar
Alexander82
Posts: 7969
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 »

In the end they will have the same effect overall, the only thing about the ability is that it won't be dodged but it won't be able to target inside tcs

I think that among the 2 is the best behaiour (dodging light isn't something that can't be done without being a gold saint :D )
Age of Fantasy design leader
User avatar
makazuwr32
Posts: 7830
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 am
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by makazuwr32 »

Hm here you are right.
makazuwr32 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amWhen you ask to change something argument why...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on...
© by Makazuwr32™.
AoF Dev Co-Leader
Image
Pyro
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:55 am
Location: The draconic highlands

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Pyro »

+1 alexander, i think the second option is better aswell. Also, "align lenses" is such a perfect name and immerses the unit even more, i like it
"You want that on fire? Yes yes on fire. On fire it is."
User avatar
Alexander82
Posts: 7969
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 »

I guess it is settled.

I only think we need some testing to balance how much damage a fire instance does so that we can balance the max amount of actions and starting range.
Age of Fantasy design leader
User avatar
Alexander82
Posts: 7969
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by Alexander82 »

Btw I also think that tjis concept is perfect for gnomes so I'd like that unit for their sub (which will be part of dwarven race)
Age of Fantasy design leader
MelexKrieger
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:13 pm

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by MelexKrieger »

Pyro wrote: Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:15 am Giant Magnifying Glass

Image

If there is one thing that im missing while besieging as the dwarves is FiErY DEstRuCtiON :mrgreen:

The "giant magnifying glass" is a siege unit that captures the energy of the sun and and releases it in concentrated rays. It does little to no damage directly, but can inflict crippling to minor burn statuses depending on how far away your target is. When used up close, if your oponent doesnt react quickly enough, they may be facing a charred mega structure within 1-2 turns. When used from afar, your oponent will be pressed to prevent their walls from slowly burning.

Cost: 5
Hp: 25
Attack: 2 (burning weapon)
Range: 4
Minimum Range: 3
Armor: 2
P. Armor: 4
Speed: 2 (siege weapon)
Sight: 10
Action Turn: 6/6
Spell Resistance: 0%

Abilities:

Medium Range Beam - Gives +2 range for 1 turn, uses 2 actions. 0 cooldown.

Long Range Beam- Gives +4 range for 1 turn, uses 4 actions . 0 cooldown.

As you see, this unit doesnt deal well with flesh and blood units but punishes those who dont protect their valuable builders.

Just for added speculation, an upgrade to this unit could be a giant telescope that does everything that the former does but adds +5 sight and spy detection
Awesome idea! If this game can have super weapon mega building update!
User avatar
godOfKings
Posts: 3302
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:50 pm

Re: Giant magnifying glass

Post by godOfKings »

Btw currently fire ship and aos can apply 2 stacks of burning from a single atk so it should b possible to apply more stacks from a single ability
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools
Post Reply

Return to “Dwarf”