Orcs Need A Nerf - ANSWERED

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LordOfAles
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Orcs Need A Nerf - ANSWERED

Post by LordOfAles » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:41 am

I'm absolutely sure orcs aren't supposed to be ranged gods, defense Masters and whatnot at once. Here is the list of needed changes to balance them out.

DEFENSIVE STRUCTURES
- Reduce Shelter range to 4
- Reduce Stone Shelter health to 90
- Reduce Stone Shelter heal rate to 8
- Reduce Volcano range to 5
- Increase Volcano armor to 5
- Increase Rock Pile Health to 120
- Lower magmatic bullet range

UNITS
- Reduce range of Ettin Masters to 2
-Reduce sight of Master and Grandmaster Caragor Riders to 6
- Reduce sight of Wolf Rider Masters to 6
- Reduce spell resistance of Caragor Rider and its upgrades to 0%
- Reduce Rock Hurler range to 7, 8 for Elite and 9 for Master
- Reduce Orc Javelineer range to 3, 4 for Elite and 5 for Master
- Reduce Goblin Archer range to 4, 5 for Elite and 6 for Master
- Reduce Uruk Archer range to 5, 6 for xp1, 7 for xp2, xp3 and xp4
- Reduce Troll Axe Thrower range to 4, 5 for Elite and 6 for Master
- Increase Whiplash Damage
- Remove grenade and sacrificability from Spiker
- Put every unit technology into their respective buildings and leave but the basic ones:
Orc Warrior
Merlock
Goblin Spearman
Goblin Archer
Orc Shaman
Goblin Slave and Orc Peon (Default anyways)
Wolf Rider
Writing (Tech)
- Make Troll Shaman ae to summon ONLY 1 type of dragon after researched techs, not freaking all 3.
- Balance it out so every dragon needs 3 sacrifices that AREN'T spikers.
- Increase researach cost of each green dragon tech by 1.
Last edited by LordOfAles on Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:04 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Patrol3110
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Re: Orcs Need A Nerf

Post by Patrol3110 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:46 am

Totally agree here, orcs are just too overwhelmingly powerful. These suggestions make sense and if they be put in, balance would be this one step closer.
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Re: Orcs Need A Nerf

Post by Midonik » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:46 am

Remove sacrificability from spiker
Isn't that a thing already? You can't use spikers to make a dragon from what I know.
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Typhoon
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Re: Orcs Need A Nerf

Post by Typhoon » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:51 am

Absolutely
Stone shelters, Ettin masters with 3 range 60 dmg and rock hurlers with 12 range with 150 total dmg against buildings were always thorn in my side.
Especially that imo orcs are supposed to destroy buildings with their melee giants that are probably 1 hitting most buildings anyway.
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Re: Orcs Need A Nerf

Post by Midonik » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:58 am

As much as I have more trust in the current balancing process than some, the range of the rock hulers and magmatic bullets on stone shelters seem like too much and need explaining, if not some changes.
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Re: Orcs Need A Nerf

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:03 am

here i totally disagree, orcs can be easily wiped off eg. with even elves. i think maybe undead a little weaker than others.

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LordOfAles
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Re: Orcs Need A Nerf

Post by LordOfAles » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:06 am

Well then you are also totally wrong. They aren't supposed to be an all-rounder race that stomps anything in its way. And what's this with green dragons and shamans? We can use 1 TURN units to make sacrifice for something overpowered, what's worse Drake needs 1 sacrifice, green dragon 2 and when 3, and shaman can summon all 3. Tell me about balance, pffft.
Last edited by LordOfAles on Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Orcs Need A Nerf

Post by LordOfAles » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:07 am

Seriously....if you have problem fighting elves use armored orcs that basically deflect arrows or literally any of orc giants.
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Patrol3110
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Re: Orcs Need A Nerf

Post by Patrol3110 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:09 am

Orcs really are all-rounders, they have second best flyers (just because scaledfolks are still in the process of balancing). Giants for days, best infantry, some of best archers, strongest cav. Even spellcasters. Oh and best navy by far. Where is the balance in that?
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Typhoon
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Re: Orcs Need A Nerf

Post by Typhoon » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:24 am

Unironically merfolks are better ships than ships themselves
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Re: Orcs Need A Nerf

Post by DreJaDe » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:58 am

LordOfAles voice our commoners concern!!! Orcs really are way too all rounder now. Humans are supposed to be the one to be the all rounder race but now Orcs stole the spotlight. And now, they even become the most powerful in almost everything.

Summoning
Cavalry
Fast units
Building annahilator (not really the best cause... Assassin still best!!)
Defender
Navy
Foot soldier
Archer
Healer
Spellcasters

Yep, they're way too all rounded for a race that isn't supposed to be one.

Though I won't ever see deletion of units cause they love their works so much but a rebalance like what LordOfAles said is good.

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Alexander82
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Re: Orcs Need A Nerf

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:51 am

Orcs are the strongest statwise (mostly hp and power) but they have most of their complementary units locked behind embassy

Who arrived in the last few months and who stayed away for long doesn't know that all race will be all rounder through subraces. Elves already went into that way with glades (that are particularly good in both melee and in ranged, with their 10 range sentry)

About humans, they will already start as all rounder (their basic army has everything from the start).

About their ships and siege I have said more times that they will be tiered but, as you might don't know, I have limited time to implement things I had not ready yet and lately we had to focus on dwarven rework.

Siege units of all race will get a powerup because buildings healt will be increased.

We alredy have planned techs and upgrades for current human sieges and other additions. For elves we are planning at base more siege means (mostly magical) and ents will be expande as a sub granting more options. Rising sun elves will employ human-like siege units

Undeads will have a siege unit that will act in melee and will have an increasing movement buff (with extra damage and trample)

on ranged units orcs are still subpar compared to other races like humans and elves. Both humans and elves can exceed range 9 with specific units or techs. Orcs have their only range 9 unit locked behind embassy and it can't be spammed because can't be produced at tc (btw it have been stated in lotr that uruk archers are on the same level of human archers)

About early rushes, elves have already a planned bolas thrower unit that can totally stop infantry unit's movement (especially needed against shielders)

For other races we already have planned expansion of naval units and more generally every race will have water fortifications (there are already topics about that on the board).
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LordOfAles
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Re: Orcs Need A Nerf

Post by LordOfAles » Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:03 pm

Yes yes, all this planning with most of the forum not knowing it is great and amazing, but learning how to progressively scale the unit balance would be a way better option. I don't think the problem is clear here, a giant hobo with a rock shouldn't outrange a siege engine that's specially designed for siege, ettin might be a giant and it's cool but having same range as a basic thrower is absurd, etc. etc. etc. etc. At least wait until other races have equivalent of what orcs will get. Balancing doesn't work the way it does now (Buffing one race to have a rather retarded amount of power compared to others), it should be on par with other races, ALWAYS. That's how balancing works, buffing 1 race from all the sudden and then doing it to another is NOT a way. Make the orcs balanced for time being, then you can add all this nonsense like 12 range hobos, 3 summonable dragons from 1 turn goblins, etc. and whatnot. There is a reason why everyone says orcs are broken asf, and it's clearly either favorism or bad game design. Changes are required. They are devastating. How hard can it be to change few numbers here and there?
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Re: Orcs Need A Nerf

Post by Patrol3110 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:24 pm

Having every race as an all-rounder is idiotic being honest. This will kill variety since every race will have same things with of course orcs being op. This is not answered and by saying that stuff is planned it doesn't help, we want actual statistics actual dates and answers as to who, what and when will be balanced and adding orc units with every update is not helpful at all.
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