Elven ballista - ANSWERED

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Sunrise Samurai
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Elven ballista - ANSWERED

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:29 am

Elven ballistas aren't built. They are grown, and alive. They aren't sentient like ents, but they do respond to elf commands well enough. They secrete a caustic sap inside of the fragile bolts grown from them, which eats through armor and building supports with relative ease.

Cost 6 at tc, maybe ent trainer
Cost 12 from ent workers
Hp: 12
Armor: 0/3
Power: 4, disarmor weapon (as disarmor spell, but on hit)
Range: 7
Speed: 2

Compared to AoS ballista, it's about the difference from a machine gun or shotgun to a precision sniper rifle. Less damage, no trample, but longer range and better to support allies against armored targets and walls/towers. It is more a support artillery to soften the enemy up than the main damage dealer.
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:17 am

I think this could be a fixed defensive structure, maybe 1 speed, since elves are mostly made by archers, i don't think a ballista would fit as really helpfull support unit w/ those stats... And instead this disarmor, maybe change it to poinson on hit, would make more sense on entlike/plant creatures.
Breaking the barrier of "work for the job" to "put the job to work for you" is a thing that i want to reach someday aswell... Probably i should make some notes about it...
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Sunrise Samurai
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:56 am

Dryads can already poison, so that would be useless. The disarmor is actually the main point, as it would clear the way for quick archers to tear holes in enemy units/buildings unencumbered by something that has say 7+ pierce armor. 1 speed could be fine I guess, but elves unfortunately can't pull off the human trick of throwing seige equipment on a wagon, so it's still quite contrary to their usual speed.
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by LordOfAles » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:32 am

Eh maybe lower the cost?I know it has disarmor and range 7 but humans can have a mage at same cost which has many more powers(lifelink,DISARMOR,fireball etc),and which is generally better
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:39 am

You're probably right, but I don't want it to be op. I'm also considering the implications of bypassing​ spell resistance, since it's on hit, as well as the extreme damage a quick archer can inflict when buffed and ignoring any form of armor. It can also be built by workers instead of buildings, which probably means it will never see the construction efforts of a tc.
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by LordOfAles » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:42 am

Maybe leave the cost and get a bonus against small foes(orcs,warriors...)
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:46 am

Hadn't considered the bonuses much. I was thinking more against armored foes, but that could be easily changed.
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LordOfAles
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by LordOfAles » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:47 am

Well,to make this worth 6 cost,it can disarmor and have bonus on small foes at the same time
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:50 am

Okay. Image. I don't suppose we could start with AoS ballista, turn the wood to bark, then add some branches and leaves around it.
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by LordOfAles » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:15 am

Da imeg
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:41 am

That's pretty much exactly what I wanted. Thank you.
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LordOfAles
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by LordOfAles » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:04 am

np,its pretty fun actually
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by MightyGuy » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:10 pm

your idea was pretty cool, but imho, the Elven Ballista seems not an elf seiges unit or not an elven unit.. :( Maybe you may change the unit name andd its structure image
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LordOfAles
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by LordOfAles » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:12 pm

Well,the funny thing is that it isnt supposed to be siege unit at all! :) Its supposed to be good only agains troops
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:55 pm

I was thinking it would be a support​ unit, not a seige unit. Besides, if you haven't noticed, I've been trying to give each race a practical unit for builders to make, in order to close the development gap that humans still have.
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by MightyGuy » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:01 pm

I meant, It would be made from nature and elf-made. Example: An Elven Crossbow (Made up of Roots, Curly Trees that covered an object or what)
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:04 pm

Well, if you prefer I guess it could be made into a kind of tower with one of those designs. Just raise the health and let it garrison 1, reduce speed to 0
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by MightyGuy » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:04 pm

The image was cool but the structure or shape and parts... its look human made . :( But the texture was look Really Elf made :)
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by MightyGuy » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:06 pm

Sunrise Samurai wrote:Well, if you prefer I guess it could be made into a kind of tower with one of those designs. Just raise the health and let it garrison 1, reduce speed to 0
no, the old one is cool for me just the image had a problem
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Alexander82
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:53 pm

To be honest I'm not much into ballistas for elves. If we want another siege we might try another ent that throws pointed logs or such
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:10 pm

I was thinking more for the disarmor than a seige weapon anyway. Wouldn't really work as an ent.
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:16 pm

Hmm. Have another idea I'll be posting when I get a while to type out stats, abilities, etc. If you don't like this then say the word and I'll close the topic.
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Alexander82
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:30 pm

I'd like to leave the final word to Daniel ;)
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:40 pm

Btw i think that a range 7 disarmor effect would totally make any giant unit useless. Parte of the strenght of giants is in their armor (they can whitstand a lot of archers hits). Having a disarmor on a far range is incredibly strong and the main purpose for which giants entered the game would be totally lost.

Some time ago there was no way for orcs to defeat elves. They had high range units and they could deal a good damage to them. Then giants changed the balance (this time in orcs' favor) and that's why we added the elven techs. Elven techs give Elven units the chance to improve over time (the main problem against orc army) and also some rebalance of their melee adjusted the balance.
After the evasion tech pack i Think that we will have a good balance (Elven melee won't die after every attack so elf archers will be able to shoot more).

Giving a disarmor effect would bring the situation when the orcs could never approach elves estarting the problem.

If you want a weapon that is a giant slayer it is ok, is a counter, like the headhunters for archers (costly but effective) and will make you use a specific strategy against a certain race, but allowing a unit to disarmor at high range will remove balance again.

If you rethink the proposal as a costly unit that is good against giants that will be ok but i'm strongly against any way that will lower some units armor at a great distance.


We should try to keep up with some concepts:

Orcs (raw power, low cost, high strenght and hp)
Elves (high range, dodge, fast, utility spells)
Humans (good at everything but best at nothing, siege weapons)
Undeads (a lot of units thanks to reanimation and great magic)
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LordOfAles
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by LordOfAles » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:45 pm

Maybe not whole disarmor,maybe -1/-1,effect vanish in 2 turns,cumulaive
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:53 pm

You might have a point. I think I'd like to wait for the evasion techs to make it into the game before we look down this road.
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Alexander82
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Re: Elven ballista

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:49 pm

set as ANSWERED
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